Episode 130 - Chris Kappy

Speaker 0 00:00:04 It's just, it's called, Speaker 1 00:00:25 Yeah. Alright. Kathy, welcome to the Raise podcast buddy. Appreciate you, uh, joining us. I'm glad Speaker 2 00:00:30 To be here. Yeah. Speaker 1 00:00:31 Yeah. Got my buddy Nick here also. Yes. Uh, I kind of feel like I'm in trouble right now, like I'm in the principal's office or something. <laugh>. Speaker 2 00:00:40 No. Usually when you're in trouble like that, I'm yelling at you like Curtis. That's Speaker 1 00:00:43 True. <laugh>. Yeah. No doubt. Um, so today we have, uh, Christopher Cappi. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:00:48 Very special guest, uh, thank you. Speaker 1 00:00:51 Country music manager, other styles, um, head of Make Wake. Yes. Right. Am I getting all this right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's basically Luke Holmes's manager. Yeah. That's how I know you for sure. Speaker 2 00:01:02 <laugh>. Hey, well Flatland, you've played with Flatland That Speaker 1 00:01:06 True. And a bunch of really super freaking talented artists that I have also liked. Yeah. Colby. And very lucky. Uh, it's cool to be sitting here in your office, man, this, it's really inspiring just to be sitting in here, look at all these plaques and awards and stuff. Speaker 3 00:01:20 Yeah, man. It's, uh, I said I, I know that this one probably cost a lot of money to make <laugh> cause Speaker 2 00:01:25 It's so big. It did. You know, it's, it's funny. That's, that's, uh, from Luke's publisher. Yeah. Uh, big machine records, um, or big machine music. And what they did is, uh, when he hit this milestone of the 12 number one singles, um, I called Mike Molinar and Scott Borchetta and I said, I want an obnoxious plaque for, for, because it's a huge accomplishment. Huge. Yes. And it's an obnoxiously large plaque. I love it. And I love it. So it looks, it's, it's a, it's a beautiful award. So, but it's, he's earned every single one of 'em, so it's, it's great. Absolutely. Speaker 1 00:01:53 Yeah. No doubt. Um, so I think the reason we brought you on the podcast is obviously to hear cool stories about coming up with Luke and, you know, managing all these different artists, different things like that, but also to kind of make the music industry more accessible to the fans. Yeah. Right. And, and I, I work in the music industry, I guess technically. Yeah, you do. And even some stuff is just, you know, like above my pay grade or maybe I'm too dumb or whatever. So there's a lot of things that I don't understand, like record labels and public, you know, all this different things like that. Sure. Something you would kind of guide us on some of that stuff as well as Yeah. Speaker 2 00:02:31 Happy to. Like, I, I, I figured it out all my, on my own also with Luke and stuff like that. And, and you know, I'm still learning every day, uh, of what's going on. But, you know, I think there's a lot of mysticism about the, the music industry, right? Yes. And, uh, and there's also a lot of misconceptions and there's also a lot of things where, like, I read stuff online and I just start laughing. Cause I'm like, these people have no idea what they're even talking about. So Speaker 1 00:02:51 <laugh>. Yeah. Well, let's hopefully fix that for the hundred people that listen to our podcast. Speaker 3 00:02:55 <laugh> hundreds. We have hundreds. Speaker 1 00:02:57 True. Literally. Um, so what, what would you say, I think the running title for this would be like, demystifying like the music industry, country music industry or whatever. Sure. Um, what would your biggest misconception be as far as like what you see fans thinking? You know, Speaker 2 00:03:13 It's funny, I you'll see stuff where like people will spout off that, uh, you know, oh, the, the record label paid for this award to win, or the, or the, or the record label said they had to sing this song and stuff like that mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And it couldn't be further from the truth, you know, and I've had to correct other people because they, they think that like the voting for the CMA awards and the ACMs is all rigged and stuff like that. And it's actually not, I mean, it's, uh, but there's so much more to it. Like, they, they think that, you know, one record label can do that, but they don't know that they're actually capped the amount of votes they're allowed to have. Yeah. And that there's a lot of people that they don't even know vote that do vote like radio stations and, and musicians and bands Yeah. Speaker 2 00:03:52 And, and people that work for the companies. So like the, the unbelievable misconception of what a lot of people think they know, they're just talking out of their ass. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But that's okay. You know, I mean, I, if you asked me a question about like how a car dealership works, I'd probably be the same thing. I would talk outta my ass and not know mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. Um, so I think that's what happens a lot in, in the industry is that, that those sort of things kind of come about and, and people just decide not to do any research and they just say whatever they wanna say. Yeah. Um, and, but then they're putting out misinformation and then other people play off of that. And we know how the internet is, you know, no doubt. Everybody just takes whatever they think and they run with it. Speaker 2 00:04:27 Next thing you know, it's like, you know, this person put out this album because their a and r team said they had to sing these songs mm-hmm. <affirmative> and look, did it used to be like that? Yeah. I'm sure it was back in the day when, when a, when a record label would contrive a band and they would say, okay, here's your songs and here's your thing and here's your look and we're gonna pay for it and we're gonna make you a star. Like sure. That did happen. Doesn't happen anymore. Like, you know, I have nine acts on major labels and not a single one of them has come and said, you're gonna sing this song, you're gonna wear this hat, you're gonna wear this shirt and you're gonna do that. Like, it just that that doesn't happen. Yeah. You know? So I think that's one thing that, um, the big bad record label is everybody wants to hate them and everything, that, that's just not true. Yeah. Speaker 1 00:05:08 I think a lot of people, it's like labels are like the boogeyman that cause all the things they don't like about country music. Yeah. It's like scapegoat or Speaker 2 00:05:15 They're not, and they're not, I mean, you know, what they do is they, they offer an opportunity for an artist to be able to create the music they wanna create at the level that we expect it to be as the fan and a listener. So to have it at the quality that needs to be on radio, the quality to be on the DSPs to be out there, you know, so, you know, what a label does is it affords them the opportunity to do that stuff. I mean, in some instances they're a bank, in other instances, they're a creative outlet. And in instances, they're a marketing business. They're a PR team, so they're everything. So we welcome the label relationships. I mean, we have artist at Sony, we have artist at Warner. We have artist at Big Machine. I mean, at, um, at, uh, at, uh, broken Bow at Big Loud Virgin. So, and I, I'm talking to Interscope right now about some stuff, and I'm talking to Columbia, New York about some stuff. So it's really cool that, you know, you have a partner like that. And, and, and we treat 'em like that. So, I mean, I talk to our label partners weekly on all sorts of stuff. And then the managers that are working with me on the other acts or talking to them daily, and, um, I mean, I talk to Sony Records every day, you know? Um, Speaker 1 00:06:21 Yeah. Man, this is so cool to hear from me. <laugh>, I'm geeking out so hard right now, dude. Awesome. That is so cool. Cause I always thought it's like, maybe back in the day, you know, it's like, okay, this guy Tim McGraw, he's got a great voice and look, we're gonna give him songs and, you know, give him a look or something like that mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But I'm sure like the, what a record label does has changed probably even since you started managing. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:06:43 It, it has. And you know, it's actually a wealth of, of, of information and stuff like that. Like, when I do something with like, um, even as small as an independent label, like Riser House where we have Dylan Carmichael and, uh, and Megan Patrick, like, you know, we're, you know, working with them, collaborating with them, how can we help? And as a management company, we're very hands on. I mean, we launched records internally also. I mean, flatland Calvary, the Panhandler, Keller Cox, like we've launched, I mean, drew Parker's first record before he signed with Warner Brothers, we launched it ourselves internally. So we have an internal team that does it too. Um, so, you know, we act as the label if we need to. Um, but it's nice having a label partner that has a full division of a PR team, a marketing team. Yes. A product team. Speaker 2 00:07:26 So radio to do all those things Yeah. Radio and everything like that. So having that opportunity out there, uh, in those experts, in, in what they do is very valuable. You know, and look, every every relationship that you have has contention. I'm not saying that it isn't like, you know, I go in there and fight for what the artist wants. Like, you know, there's days where I'm like, Hey, we really wanna focus on this song, or we want this, or can you push this? Or what are we doing here? But it's never done, you know, maliciously, like, nobody's going in there and kicking doors down and doing that kind of stuff. And, and nobody's standing over me like an overlord with a checkbook saying, if you don't do this, you're not getting any more money. <laugh>. Like, you know, that's just doesn't happen. Yeah. So I think, I think that's one of the biggest misconceptions that, you know, or is the label gonna change this person? Speaker 2 00:08:10 Like, no, they're not, that's not what they do. What, what they, they want to succeed more than anybody. I mean, they're the ones who are putting the, the money up to make it happen and stuff like that. They wanna see this success. They wanna have it do well. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So, you know, I think that's another one is that, you know, they, but they're gonna give you feedback. I mean, that's why you have an a and r team. But, you know, with the way that everything's moving in the industry and the, and, and, and how social media, um, and, you know, um, you know, everything from like, you know, the TOS of the world, which is more of like, I look at like TikTok and, and like YouTube shorts and, and, and, and reels and stuff like that. It's more of like entertainment media. Like, you know, there's social media content Speaker 1 00:08:46 Creators. Yeah, yeah, Speaker 2 00:08:47 Yeah. It's, it's, and, and, and, and something might resonate there, and then it takes off and it runs with it. But, you know, I, I think that, um, and the labels help with all that kind of stuff. You know, we we're, we're always looking at ad buys and, and what works here and what's doing well, and, and they have the data and they can crunch those numbers. And they have analysts that bring everything back. Like, this song is reacting very well. And I mean, I love all of that stuff, you know? It, it really is a business. Yes. You know, it truly is. And Speaker 3 00:09:11 I, I think that's a very good point. And like, having worked at, you know, a label previously, it's like one of those things where it's like, you see the power of having people that are so good at what they do mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and they're just repeating that over and over and over again at the thing that they're good at. Right. You know, so there's just so much power in having 30 people pointing in the same direction True. Towards one goal. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:09:31 And then it's also helps that we have a team of, of really competent and, and amazing people that work at Make Wake Yes. That have the, have the passion for the artist too. That we can jump in to a label and, um, and, and, and, and make things happen. Like we can, we can do that. We can, we can jump in with like, if, if we need something done and, you know, there's a lot going on, we can step in and help and, and, and we work, like I said, hand in hand with them, and we talk to them, like I said, weekly, uh, to, to jump in and do that stuff. Speaker 1 00:10:00 I love every person that works in this building. <laugh>. Absolutely do. Speaker 2 00:10:04 We are very, very blessed to have, um, a fantastic, uh, group of souls here. Like, I, I, I've always, you know, when I started Make Wake in, you know, 2015, I never imagined it growing into what it is today. Like this size of it, you know, Luke always encouraged it to be more than just him. Like he always did. Like, that was a, that was a dream for both of us. Um, and he never said, I don't want you managing anybody else. Like, he always encouraged it. He's like, you know, as long as you're taking care of everything in my world, you know, open, open the wings up. Like, go. And, and now, you know, we have 22 full-time staff over here. We have 19 acts. Um, you know, it's a, it's a very fun place. And I always tell people that I'm, I'm a collector of good souls. Speaker 2 00:10:46 I, I meet good people and I mean, I've hired five of my last interns. Like, they're so good. I'm like, you're not leaving. Like, you gotta come back. Or they go to school and then as soon as they're done, they graduate, they come and have a job. Um, which has been great. Cause you kinda get to see the, the work ethic of somebody Yeah. And, and bring them in and understand how they work with the team. Um, so I'm very, I'm very happy with, you know, who we are as a company and, and, and what we've accomplished and the, and the passion and the young people that are here. Yeah. Because, you know, I'm twice the age of most of the people that work here, you know, and it's fun to be able to let them run with, with everything. Like, I, I don't know everything. In fact, I, I probably need to stay out of the way of these people because they're very good at what they do, and when they take off and start running, I just, I'm there to give them win behind their back. Speaker 3 00:11:32 Yeah. That's a great way to think about it too. In my head. It's like, you're only successful as the people that you trust to help along that journey. Right. And so I think that's a very important part. Whether it's a record label, whether it's a management team, whether it's a booking, publishing, whatever it is. Right. If you have the right people in the right spots and you trust them, and you let them do their work, right, you're gonna have good results as Speaker 2 00:11:54 Long as you got the right people. Yeah. You go back and look at the, the old adage of like, you know, the canoe. And if, if you have, like, let's say you have 20 people in a canoe and you're all rowing, and if one person puts their ore in the water the wrong way, um, it can mess up all the other 19 people in that canoe. Yeah. Or if somebody is a, is a right-handed rower, but you have 'em on the left hand side, or they're a power rower, they need to be in front and not in the back. You have to figure out what seat they're in. And sometimes, and it rarely happens here, you have to have somebody just get out of the canoe, you know? And I've had to have that with artists, and an artist have fired me, and I've walked away from artists and, um, you know, I've only had one person leave the company, you know? Speaker 2 00:12:32 So, um, we're very lucky. You know, I mean, we're celebrating, it's so great to celebrate five year anniversaries and six year anniversaries already within a company that's only eight years old. That means people have been there, you know, from the beginning. But, you know, we found people like Sophia that works for us, that loves Sophia is well, she's my right arm, you know, she's, and you know, Sophia came to me and I, I couldn't afford Sophia, but I also couldn't afford to lose her. So I had to figure out a way to, to make that work. And I mean, and when we first started together, I was like, look, I can only pay you 500 bucks a week. I'm barely making any money myself. I'm living in the back of my office. Like I can, I'm barely keeping this thing on the rails. I Speaker 1 00:13:08 Remember those days, Speaker 2 00:13:08 But I need you and I, and I need you here. And now, you know, she, not only is Luke's day to age, she's a partner in the company and she runs everything in Nicole's world. And, you know, she's just, she's such an asset to, to what we do. But that I could say that for Jared, Holly, and when we're, and Jared's another partner in the company, and, you know, Jared was working for another company, and I found Jared and I convinced him to come over and, and work as a day-to-day manager. And next thing you know, now he's a manager, and now he's got his own roster. And like, you know, we work, uh, we work hand in hand. And, and the vision that he has has been a, a, an amazing theme to kind of watch and then kind of grow the company from there and, and add the people on and add the artist on has been, you know, so fun. Speaker 1 00:13:47 Can you, uh, clarify a little bit for our listeners and for me, what, what is a day-to-day manager versus a manager? Yeah. And like, what is a day in the life of Chris Galler? Yeah, Speaker 2 00:13:57 There's, so there's so many managers, like in our business. So like, there's the manager, the day-to-day manager, the tour manager, the production manager, the business manager. So you have all these like manager names. It's like when I talk to somebody who's in TV on movies and like, I'm a producer, I'm like, I have no idea what that means. Right. And it's, it's, it's crazy. So the manager is the, is the, is the top of the mountain. That's Speaker 1 00:14:19 The Chris Capy, right? So Speaker 2 00:14:20 That's the, that's the dot topic. Then your right hand is your day-to-day manager. So the day-to-day manager is there to help with the, the day-to-day operations of the artist in the, in the, in what they're doing. Um, and you can give them as much or as little, um, to do, you know, and, and with all of our day-to-day managers, we, we, uh, we immerse them in everything. They're on every phone call, they're in every meeting, they're on everything. So we, we Speaker 1 00:14:45 That like a, like me emailing Walker and booking a Colby Cuff on the podcast. Yep. Yeah. He's, that's like a day-to-day manager's, like maybe booking media stuff or helping with, with flight manage Speaker 2 00:14:57 Calendars and flights and logistics and that kind of stuff. So you have that. Then you have a production manager and a tour manager. So let's talk about the two of them. Okay. So your tour manager runs your tour. So they're the ones that are on the road leading this traveling circus that we all live every day in every city. Um, to and from where they're going, the production manager, and not everybody has a production manager. You have to get to a certain level, but the production manager is handling everything that's happening on the stage. So everything that's like the sound and the lights and all that kind of stuff, they're gonna be responsible for that. And then the production manager and the tour manager kind of work in tandem on what's going on. Then you have a business manager, you know, they work for the artist directly, and then they, and they are out there to handle the finances of, uh, of a band and, and what they do. Speaker 2 00:15:37 And so, you know, you usually add that when a band is starting to like, make money and do that kind of stuff. And you bring the business manager in. So there's lots of managers in there. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And then what you try to do is you try to build a team, um, of people like that, that you can work really well with. Yeah. We call it the Home Team and The Away Team. Um, and as a, as a camp here, you know, for years I worked, um, on a, on a, for a company called Six Man, where we did music festivals on cruise ships, and I would watch The Away Teams. That's all I saw was the Away teams. And every now and then, the home team would come out and you always, I always was watching. I saw very few where they got along. Speaker 2 00:16:12 Like, it was always like, well, you know, that guy just sits at home all day long and drinks while we're out here working. And then, you know, the guy sitting at home is like, you know, the, the home team is like, these guys are on the road just partying every night. He's drinking. Yeah. Roseville drinking. And needless to say, all of them are actually working very hard. Yeah. So, you know, we worked very hard at, at Make Wake, um, to have everybody, um, involved in the away teams as much as we can. So they know it. So, like, in fact, two weeks ago we were in Indie and doing a show up there, um, at Lucas Oil Field. And we had, um, a bunch of our team up there working, uh, for the artists that we had out there, but then we also had people in the office who were out tour managing, like helping with the bands. Speaker 2 00:16:54 Like, okay, we had this going on. So I, I had, you know, HB was out with Haley Whitters, and I had Sarah out with Megan Patrick, and, you know, Walker was on the road with Drew and, you know, so everybody was out. And essentially out of the 22 employees that we have here, um, I think 18 of them were on the road that weekend helping. So like with management, not only is it Monday through Friday, it's Saturday, it's Sunday, it's, you know, nine o'clock at night, it's four o'clock in the morning. Like, you know, when you get into management, you get phone calls at those times. I mean, I've gotten phone calls at 3:00 AM Speaker 1 00:17:24 I've been on the Luke's bus when we've had a few, and he is like, dude, I bet you a hundred dollars if I call Chris Cappi right now, he'll pick up. And it was like three o'clock in the morning, and he did. Yeah. Do you have like a special ringtone on your phone if Luke calls or something? I Speaker 2 00:17:37 Have, I have ringtones for the artists. So like, when they know, I know when they're, when they're calling, but I leave the phone next to my bed every night. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, it's, it's turned on and it's a full volume. It's plugged in because I know that it's gonna happen. And, you know, it's, it's one of those things where if you have the relationship with your artists that you do, they know to call you. They're like, I need to talk to this guy. This guy is gonna get it figured out if there's an issue. Um, so yeah, that happens all the time. So, um, and you know, I get up early every day, you know, I'm up between four and five every day, so, you know, I'm up firing off emails to people and stuff like that. And I'll get a text from somebody early in the morning, like 7:00 AM like, or a call, you know, Hey, can we catch up? Yeah, sure. I'm up, I've been up for three hours. Come on, call me. Let's have a conversation. Speaker 1 00:18:19 So can you paint us a day in the life of Chris happy? Speaker 2 00:18:23 It's never the same. I know that's, um, you know, it's funny, my, my poor assistant Alexis, um, it, it's like, usually what happens is by 10 o'clock, if everything's kind of okay by then, the day's gonna play out. But usually something will happen between nine and 10:00 AM and my entire day will just blow up. Um, but that's okay. Yeah. Like, you know, that's the beauty of keeping it at flexible. But I try to take, um, you know, I wake up in the morning, I have, uh, coffee and then what I do is I sit there and I get on Twitter and I read, and I Google all I I I, I search all the artists and I read their, their Twitter, oh shit. Really? Oh, yeah. Every day. And cuz it gives me a pulse of what's going on, what song they're listening to, what thing they're excited about and, and that kind of stuff. Speaker 2 00:19:03 So I'll go through that and I'll read, and then, um, I'll essentially start knocking out emails. And then usually by eight o'clock I'm in the car on, uh, or by seven o'clock, I'm usually in the car on the way to an eight o'clock breakfast. So I try to do three breakfast meetings a week, because if you can get a good breakfast meeting again from eight to nine, usually everybody is still like, stirring, nothing's happening. And you can get a good meeting in. And then usually my first meetings start around nine to nine 15 in the office. And then, um, we kind of go straight from there. Um, like tonight, uh, we're doing this, uh, I've already done four phone calls today mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, and then, you know, um, Megan Patrick is playing at the op operating night for Opry Debut. So we're gonna go see that hell, which is really cool. Speaker 2 00:19:44 Congrats Megan. And, you know, I still have three more calls in the middle of this today, and then my phone will ring, like, you know, and I've already talked to, um, three of my artists today. So it's like they, they're gonna reach out and have conversations and they wanna just say like, you know, and it's more, you know, the funny thing about management is not only is it running their career, it's also running their, their lives and helping them navigate, you know, questions and, and strategies and, and that sort of stuff. And you're like, you're their, they're, you're their confidant, you're their mm-hmm. <affirmative>, they're rock and stuff like that. And, and, um, I love that. You know, it's, it's so true. They're not, you know, it's, you know, people don't understand that these, these are human beings. Yeah. And it's not like, it's not like I'm selling an iPhone or a hat or something like that. Speaker 2 00:20:24 Yeah. That's an inanimate object that, you know, the goal is to market it and sell it and get people out there. These are humans and they have feelings and they have, you know, things that they need to worry about. And they have a, they have a, they have a career, they also have a personal life. They have, you know, of, of all the things that's going and, and you never know how this business is gonna go. I mean, you just, you, you, you can't forecast it. There's no crystal ball. And, um, you gotta just have to do what you do and hope that it all kind of fires in the same direction. And, and, you know, everything is moving that way together. And that's your job as a manager. Your job is to wrangle everything and then, and then see that goal and, and go for it. Yeah. Speaker 1 00:21:00 I love that. That's awesome, man. Um, I've definitely seen you, you know, be right there with us for the best and the worst times for sure. Um, so it's been really great knowing anybody for sure. Um, yeah, it's, Speaker 2 00:21:13 It, like I said, it's, we've been through a lot, you know, we went through Route 91 together. Yeah. Speaker 1 00:21:18 I remember like the next day you called and we're like, who needs therapy? Let's get everyone taken care of. Let's, and you were just fucking right there, you know, like helping us all out. Well, Speaker 2 00:21:27 I love you guys. Like, it's, it's, you know, I, I, you know, it's, we got into this crazy world together and, and it's a crazy world. Let's, let's not, let's not. I mean, it, it's crazy. Yeah. <laugh> and, but we care about each other. Like, you know, it's like we make fun of each other, but if somebody crosses us, we're gonna beat that person up, you know? Mm-hmm. <affirmative> not, not, not literally like figuratively. Yeah. But like, we're we're there to protect each other. Like we're, it's like a, it's almost like a, a legal gang, you know, uh, of people. And, um, but you know, it's, it's like that with everybody, you know? And, and, um, you know, you guys know that I would do anything for you guys and I know you guys would do anything for me. And so I think that's the, the, the neat thing that, and it's also what Luke is, you know, in the Luke camp Luke's created that, you know, when, you know, you know, when the pandemic hit and Luke, you know, kept everybody on, like, nobody got the, you know, getting get rid of anybody. Speaker 2 00:22:17 Well, sorry. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, so for Luke to do that was unbelievable. And a lot of people, you know, couldn't financially afford it. Luke did and Luke like, gave you guys the peace of mind, like, Hey guys, I got you taken care of. So like, and we did the same thing here at Make Wake. We didn't furlough anybody, we didn't lay anybody off. I, we hired people that got furloughed and laid off, and I was actually actually able to cherry pick some really great people to work here now that are making a huge difference in the company. So, um, you know, that was, that was really awesome to be able to do. But it all comes from the top. I mean, you know, Luke and Nico and Drew and Haley and Flatland and I mean, all of these artists that have these teams around them, um, they lead the same way. They take care of their people. They wanna make sure that they are getting everything that they need. And, you know, luckily I'm just a, a, a cog in the wheel, which is, you know, a, a fun place to be, Speaker 1 00:23:02 No doubt. Uh, something that Nick and I were, were talking about earlier is like, when you're looking at artists, just to switch gears a little bit here. Sure. Uh, how much of it is like a numbers thing as far as, you know, it being at 2023? Sure. Looking at spins and views and versus like a gut thing. And do you have any like Yeah, Speaker 2 00:23:25 That, that, and that's a great question. So Speaker 1 00:23:27 It was Nick question. I just said it. <laugh>. Oh, perfect. Speaker 2 00:23:29 Well, thank you Nick. It's a, I can tell, it's actually a smart question, <laugh>. So the, uh, it's funny, there's, I'm a student of history, okay. And I like to go back and, and study the people that made our industry great. And there's a great documentary out there called Mr. A and Mr. M, and it's the story of Herb Alpert and Jerry Moss who started a and m Records. And their whole mindset was, if we love the music and we love the people, we'll figure it out. Yeah. And I was like, wow, what a great philosophy. I was like, cuz not everything gets to work. Not everything gets to be the size that it wants to be. Not every, like, it just, it's impossible. Like, there's no special pixie dust or anything. Right. It just isn't out there. Right. But if you're passionate, passion is a pixie dust. Speaker 2 00:24:14 Yeah. So essentially what what I do is I talk to our team and I'm like, do you love the music? Yes. Do you love the person? Yes. Well, then let's do it. We'll figure everything else out. Like that's the, the, you know, we'll, we'll get excited about it, but that's the thing. It's like, I wanna love the music. I wanna love the person. I want them to appreciate why they're here and why, and, and also they're gonna appreciate why we're doing what we're doing. So, yeah. Absolutely. I, um, that's how we do it. So like, somebody will bring something in, anybody can bring anything in, like anybody in the company. Speaker 1 00:24:46 Um, so some like Mallory working at Merch could bring in so-and-so to, to your desk and be like, check this artist Speaker 2 00:24:52 Out. Mallory did Red Shahan, who is one of our artists, so Speaker 1 00:24:55 That's so fucking cool, man. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:24:57 And we heard the music and we loved it. We met with Red and he's like, yeah, let's do this. And we're like, great. And here we are, you know, and Red's, you know, in the, in the studio doing a new record and we funded that whole thing for him. We're like, red, go make the record you wanna make, man. And then that's one of the things that we do here too, because there's a lot of predatory people in our industry. Speaker 1 00:25:13 That's so cool, man. That's awesome. Yeah, Speaker 2 00:25:14 There's a lot of predatory people in our industry. There's a lot of people that, that go in and, and, and try to take advantage of these young artists who have no idea what they're doing. And I'm, and it's a very small few, but they're out there mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and they'll go in, they'll sink their claws in and write, you know, these perpetuity deals where they get 15% for the rest of their career. Yeah. Unless something drastic happens and or 360 Speaker 1 00:25:34 Deals or Speaker 2 00:25:34 Whatever. Yeah. And I just, I'm like, that's not cool, man. Like, don't take advantage of these young people because you, you tend to know something. Um, so what we do is we try to work with, with that artist. So like, for instance, like, like red, like red wanted to make a record. Great. Go make the record. You wanna make, here's the money, gimme a budget, that's fine. I'll, I'll pay for it. Let me recoup back. And then we'll, we'll, we'll figure out a split. And he's like, it's that easy. I'm like, yeah man, I don't want you getting upside down in something and I want you to be able to create what you do. And I believe in your music, so let's go do it. So I turn into the bank, which makes my business manager crazy, but, um, I don't mind doing it. I'd rather invest in them than get them in some sort of sideways deal that they don't believe in. Speaker 2 00:26:15 I, I'll give you another story. Keller Cox, um, please. Young, young kid who's, who's, who's amazing, which we love is coming outta Tech Keller's. Great. So Keller and I are sitting, um, on, uh, I did a birthday event back in, in December, and, um, Keller and I, yeah, the Kurtz wearing the, uh, sweatshirt right now, <laugh>. And uh, and we were sitting together having a conversation and he was like, Hey man, you know, I just, if I could just fi get a, like a publishing deal where I could get, you know, $2,000 a month and everything, it would just really help me to, you know, move everything forward as I'm getting started. Uh, and I said, well, I'll just, I'll give you $2,000 a month and I'll be your publisher and, and we'll figure this out. And he's like, well, what? And I was like, yeah, man, that's like, why don't, why I don't want you getting inside a deal that, you know, you can't deliver the songs that you need to do or anything of that kind of stuff. Speaker 2 00:27:01 Like, cuz you're not designing yourself to be a songwriter. You're, you're writing songs for yourself. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And, and if you need that, that money to, to make sure your rent is paid and your car has gas in it, and you can get to things to do these things, then let me help you. And then how about we do this, I'll do it. I get paid back first and then once I'm paid back, we'll figure out a split. And he's like, really? I'm like, yeah, man, that's easy. I got home, made a phone call and next thing you know, I created a, like a little publishing company and I went to, you know, my good friend Ben Vaughn over at, at Warner Chapel, and he's admining it for me. And, you know, we created something that was an, an avenue for the artist to have safety and, and, and so let's say it takes off okay. Speaker 2 00:27:40 In a year, and it, it blows up. And, and, and Keller needs like a real publisher. I'm not a publisher. Like we need a real publisher. Like, you know, um, and then I can upstream it to somebody and be like, well, there you go. Like, I can just hand it off. And then like, I'm, I'm not in the publishing business, but I'm there to provide an opportunity for an artist to be in a safe place, comfortable. Um, and, and, and that's what I do. So he doesn't have to deliver a certain amount of cuts and he doesn't have to deliver whatever. And, and, and we work out a really fair deal and now he can create and do the things that he needs to do, um, safely, uh, without the, this looming threat of this giant, like debt hanging over his head mm-hmm. <affirmative> and look, is it, is it risky for me? Speaker 2 00:28:19 Sure. I'm a risky guy. I mean, at 42 years old, I jumped into a van with five guys playing tin roof, cantina and, you know, bars, you know, called Zydeco, um, to, to see where this was gonna go. I'm a risk taker. Like, you know, I, I'm okay with that. Like, you know, it's, it's way more fun to invest in someone and help them with their dream and watch it come to fruition than it is to buy a house or to do something else with that money. I'd rather put it into them because success and money are two totally different things. People that want to get rich doing this is a, is a different mindset than people that want to have success. And the bipo byproduct of success is wealth. You have to look at it that way. Anybody that sits there and it's like, has a number in their head like, I wanna make this or I wanna do that, I think they're going about it the wrong way. Speaker 2 00:29:10 You know, uh, you have to go in it, um, uh, with the idea that you could go broke and you could like lose everything. And I was there, I mean, I was broke with Luke in the beginning. I was sleeping on a couch, living in a house full of mice and East Nashville afraid that somebody's gonna kick the door in every day and was late on rent and credit cards were maxed out and credit score was in the 400 s and stuff like that. And, um, I, I 100% was like, you know, destitute and now we're playing N F L stadiums and selling out worldwide tour together. And it was like, I was never gonna give up on my dream. I was never gonna give up on his dream. Um, and you just have to decide, you know, what's more important, you know? And like I, I could have gone and just gotten a job at Home Depot selling hammers, which I'd be really good at. Um, but, um, you know, I just, I wanted to do something different and, and change things and we just weren't going to, neither one of us were gonna give up. He didn't give up. I didn't give up. He didn't give up on me. I mean, he took a chance on me. Um, like I didn't have a, I wasn't, I didn't never manage anybody before. And, and you know, luckily here we are, you know, eight years later, you know, still chugging along. Speaker 1 00:30:22 I love the Luke and Cappi romance origin story. <laugh> and, and what didn't Bradley kind of, yeah, Speaker 2 00:30:30 Well they, Bradley Jordan for Peachtree Entertainment, who's, uh, an unbelievable friend. We've been friends since we were kids. We grew up playing junior golf together and then we're fraternity brothers together and we've been through hell and back and I'm so proud of what he's built. But you know, he's the one who got me introduced to Luke. Like, he's like, here's the guy, you know, he called me and I was like, okay. And we had to like buy a show, um, which is hysterical that I paid seven $50 to get Luke to play a show, um, uh, in the beginning and, and bought it. And we did it at the 40 Watton Athens, uh, labor Day weekend of, um, I'm sorry, uh, Memorial Day weekend of 2015. And on a Saturday, which was a show where nobody should have been there. Like it was a college town holiday weekend. Like everybody should have been at the lake. And by that time on a Saturday night, they're all drunk and they're not moving. And, um, I expected theater to be three people there, like me, Luke, and Bradley. And, um, we had 83 people show up. We didn't sell a single ticket in advance, not one ticket. And there's, uh, 83 people. In fact, the, the poster is right there. That's the poster of it right there. That's the first show we did together. Uh, Speaker 1 00:31:29 That's awesome. Yeah. It's pretty fucking crazy. Saturday May 23rd. Yeah, that was it. 2015. Speaker 2 00:31:34 That was our first show together and um, and we did it. And I re and I remember that was the first time he played Hurricane Live, cuz the only time it was out was on your porch, Kurt, uh mm-hmm. <affirmative> that you Rob and him did on the back porch of your old house, uh, or your old apartment over here in, in Midtown. And uh, which the address is, uh, totally kidding. I'm not gonna doc Speaker 1 00:31:53 You. Well no, we sold it. Oh, Speaker 2 00:31:54 Okay. Well then go ahead and tell everybody. Speaker 1 00:31:55 No, I'm kidding. No, but it's so funny. But so we did record Luke's like, Hey, I got this new song and we did an acoustic version on my porch at the time, and then we went to sell at the place My mom's like, you should say that, like, this is where it was listed, like as part of like the, the ad on it, whatever. But we sold it cash to some Chinese investor <laugh>, like with the day we put it on market. Well, Speaker 2 00:32:17 You go. But it was funny. So I remember being in the, being in the, in the, in the 40 watt, 40 wats, a legendary venue in, in Athens. And I remember Luan like, like Rob Williford, uh, you know, his old guitar player playing the lick, like learning it mm-hmm. <affirmative> and then like Luke's like, can you print out the lyrics so like the guys could sing it? And like that was the first time he played it live. And it was really cool to be there for like, something like that. But I remember him getting up there in, in soundcheck going like, holy shit, this guy can sing. Like this guy can sing. Like he was born to sing. Speaker 1 00:32:49 Yes. I gotta tell you guys how I got the Luke hookup. I'm sure I've told this on podcast before, but, uh, Rob texted me, he is like, Hey, do you want to play acoustic show with this guy Luke Combs? He's gonna be famous. He's that good <laugh>. And I was like, sure. And so we bought some beer and we went to that apartment. Yep. And I met Luke and we, I had pulled my Dobo out and three of us jammed and worked through the songs. And as soon as I heard him saying, like, this dude's, I mean, it just like, his voice just tugs at your heartstrings immediately. Yeah. And that's, I was just like, oh my God, this guy's so good. Speaker 2 00:33:22 Yeah. And it's, uh, and uh, to, to finish the, the story, like I, I saw him that night and then we're there 83 people? Uh, 40 watt, they're singing every word to every song that he already had out, which he had six songs out, two eps. And then he, he sings Hurricane and they were singing the words to hurricane. They had watched it only on Facebook. It wasn't even out yet. And he was, they were singing it and they were like into it. And I was like, this dude has it, it's it. He has it. Yes. And then I was just like, I gotta figure this out. And it took me three months to convince him to do it. And then he said yes, like moved to Nashville and I did. And then it started from there and I jumped in the van. And for that first year I, you know, like I said, I'm 42 years old and they were all 25 ish in age. Speaker 2 00:34:06 Like they were around that, that timeframe, you know? Anyway, from like, you know, I think maybe 27 to 23 is where was the age, age range. And it was, you know, Luke and I in the front seat, I'm driving, you know, Luke's shotgun, everybody else is in the back, you know, Jake and, and Tyler and, and Rob. And then, you know, it was from Joe Costa to um, a guy named Robard and, and stuff like that, uh, for Basin. And essentially what we did is we were going from down to town and I was helping load in. So I was tour manager. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So, so Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday I was manager. Thursday morning I'd show up. I was tour manager and we would, we would, uh, and I was also then selling merch and I was actually mixing their ears on my cell phone with a 16 channel Bluetooth mixer, much similar to the one that you have right here. That, that would, would be mixing their ears on the stage. Like they'd be pointing at me at merch as I'm trying to sell a t-shirt or accusing and also give, you know, Tyler more of Luke's vocal, uh, which I was very bad at being a sound guy. Thank God we have Zeus <laugh>. Speaker 1 00:35:00 I already heard King's comments on this. Speaker 2 00:35:02 Oh yeah, totally <laugh>. And then, uh, and then at the end of the night, I'd settle the show, I'd settle the merch and I'd load out. And then, um, what I was doing in those early days, cuz we were, I was so poor, um, was I would take all the food in the green room if we even had like a green room, whatever, but like the water and like the funions and the peanut butter, whatever, and I'd throw it into a merch bin and throw it in the back of the sprinter. Cause that's what I was living off of. Um, and I was like, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna quit. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna, this is going to work. Um, and uh, and, and you know, I lived off of essentially, you know, any whatever, crackers, cookies and whatever we had, no matter I was 426 pounds. Speaker 2 00:35:40 Um, I lived off of that from old days. Yeah, yeah. The old, the old days. And uh, you know, I lived off of that. Like, that's that's what it, but that's what it took. Like, you know, if, if you believe in something that much, no matter what you wanna be, if you wanna be a doctor or a manager or, or whatever, you wanna be a a an entrepreneur, you have to go all in. Like, if you're not gonna go all in, how are you gonna make it? Like, I mean, you have to just put everything into it. And, you know, people thought I was a little crazy, you know, I left a job of 15 years, which I was very, you know, happy at and successful with and, you know, and, but I always wanted be a manager. And it was when Bradley had called me and I was living in California and he's like, if you don't do this now, you're never going to do it. Speaker 2 00:36:17 Like you're gonna, and dude, regret is the worst feeling in the world. Failure's fine, dude. Failure, I fail every day, but regret, regret sucks, man. And so I did it and I went all in and it worked. You know, it worked. And, and you know, as I look around the office too, it's like I I I, I get to see these things up there and it's just exciting to see like, you know, a Hailey Whitters and a Nico Moon and a Luke Combs plaques on the wall, or a sold out Flatland Calvary two nights at Billy Bob's show, or, you know, any of the multiple things that, uh, I got up on there. Like, you know, number one that Drew Parker has written with Luke, you know, the, and, and like, you know, there's just all these things like the, you know, the letter to Luke to, you know, go to SNL for the first time. And like those little things, it's just, it's really amazing to look at the museum of things that we've done in, in such a short amount of time. And I just, I can't wait to see what, you know, the rest of this holds for us. You know, that's pretty crazy. Speaker 3 00:37:17 And I'm sure that throughout the journey there's been a lot of like pinch me moments. Right. Or like, Speaker 2 00:37:22 Oh man, every, but the pinch me moments are awesome because the pinch me moments can be like when Drew Parker played the Opry for the first time. Yeah. That's a pinch me moment. Yeah. When Luke sold out, um, kid Brewer Stadium at App State for the first time when his home, his his alma mater, that's a pinch me moment watching Haley Whitters sell out the dance more in Iowa. You know, that's a pinch me moment. Like hearing those, like, you know, all those things are, are exciting. Like, but even like, you know, you know Keller, you know, sending you his first like Ke Keller is so funny. He wrote me a check for his first commission payment and it was like 700 bucks and I wrote him back. In fact, I'm gonna, I'm gonna read you, I'll read you the text. It's pretty amazing. So Keller's Speaker 1 00:38:05 Such a blessed human. I love, we had him on the pod and it was immediately one of our favorite episodes ever. Definitely. Y'all should go check that out Speaker 3 00:38:13 Wise beyond his years, one of the finest humans on the planet. No doubt Speaker 2 00:38:16 He's a sweetheart. So he wrote, he wrote me this, he wrote this a very nice card to me and a, and a and a check from his personal checking account. I said, Hey buddy, thank you. Just sat at my desk and got the card in check. Lucky for you. I like you and I'm going to frame this card in. Check, add that money back into your account and use it to grow. We will figure out commissions when you're more stable and financially sound, sound. The fact that you did this says so much about you as a person. And I'm so glad I represent you. This is the beginning of huge things, my friend, you know, Speaker 1 00:38:43 All right, I'm becoming an artist and I'm signing a make wake right now. <laugh>, dude, I'm so hyped. I could run through a door right now. <laugh>. Speaker 2 00:38:49 But that's like, that's, that's, we get to do this for a living. Like I get to wake up every day and I get to be in the music business and I get to help artists take their art and their craft and their passion and their creativity and give it to people. And I love that. Like I think that's what's, that's the beauty of what this is and everything. So it's, it's, it's beautiful. Kurt, we don't have to stop. I love talking to you. Speaker 1 00:39:11 No, me too. I, I just don't wanna take up too much of your time, but Speaker 2 00:39:14 Are we good? Look, lemme look at my calendar. Let's say. I don't have to do anything cuz like I said, I'll talk about this stuff all day long. I don't have to do anything until, uh, two 30. So we got all the time in the world. Perfect. Speaker 1 00:39:25 Yeah. Um, so I want to talk more about like what, what you look for I guess when you're picking artists. Cause hopefully some artists will be listening to this podcast, I'm sure. Sure. They definitely do. Um, I meant I'll be like, I'll be honest, like the first time I heard Luke, it was just like screaming in my head. Yes. It was just like the most obvious thing. But there's like some people like, and I love, but like Drew was on tour with us, right? I didn't know anything about Drew. Right. I'm like, who the hell's Drew Parker? Right? Why is he on tour with us? I don't even know who this guy is. Right. And then I heard him sing and I was like, this guy has like the best vibrato I've ever heard. Like, his voice is incredible. Right. But like you heard that before I did. Right. And well Speaker 2 00:40:05 It's funny how each artist comes to you in a different way. You know, I met Drew before I moved to Nashville to be with Luke cuz he knew Bradley. Bradley is like the conduit for so many of these things. Yes. Because he just, he's the one who's seeing these people. He, I mean, if a label was smart, they would hire him as their a a and r person because that guy can just find stuff. It's, it's fantastic. And, you know, met Drew and, and Drew moved to town and Drew and I moved to town within like a month of each other. And you know, when he, he came to town, he, you know, he was an X-ray tech and writing and then, you know, got his chops as a, but he was also a singer. Like Drew's story's amazing. Have you ever talked to him about his story of like, he went and toured churches singing gospel music because he couldn't go anywhere else. Speaker 2 00:40:47 So he wanted, he toured churches, like how smart is that as a young kid? So like Drew came up that way and then had such a, had a passion, uh, behind it. And, and then we just started like running with him and then like, you know, Haley Whitters, like the way that we got, uh, Joe Jake gear her, her now husband, you know, came to the office one day and, you know, he's a, he's a publisher in town and he's like, Hey, I need you to listen to some music and like listen to the music. And then, but what I didn't remember is that we had toured with Haley. Haley was out with us, um, very early on, um, with Luke in like 2015, like the end of 2015. And I don't remember her being out with us, but she opened up three shows for us. Speaker 2 00:41:29 And when we got that whole thing done, um, I ended up, uh, talking to her years later and we went through the whole process and she was meeting with a lot of managers and she ended up su settling with us. And, and I was like, Hey, why'd you choose? Yeah, why'd you choose Make Wake? And and she goes, you don't remember, do you? I'm like, no. What did I, what did I do? Oh boy. <laugh>. Yeah. I was like, what did I do? She goes, I was out with you guys and we were playing a bunch of like places in South Carolina, Wendell's Dipping Branch. There's a place in, um, Darlington I think and somewhere else. So she's like, I was on that tour. We were both at APA and you were, you were so kind. You got water for me on the stage. You settled my show for me. Speaker 2 00:42:05 You settled merch for me. You sold merch for me. You did all that. You walked me to my car, you made sure I got there. You were never creepy. It was, it was awesome. Like you were so nice and kind. She's like, I never forgot that. And it's, it's so funny how in this business, cuz this business people change so often, um, you never know when that's gonna come back and hit you. And that's how Haley happened. Nico, I wanted to manage Nico back in 2000 and like 11. Like that was the first artist I ever wanted to manage, and I was gonna get into the business. And I was working at Six Man, and I knew Nico, and we had sat down and I had talked about my touring method, which I use, which is called Concentric Circle Touring about how to hit markets and what to do. Speaker 2 00:42:42 And then Nico actually ended up signing with Southern Ground and Zach Brown and kind of going that way and everything like that. And we circled back years later and I get a phone call, um, and I get music sent to me. And, um, Ben Vaughn and I were talking out, I remember where I was exactly, I was in, uh, LA for the Grammys. This was in 2020. And I was out there, I was driving a big black Escalade around la I thought it was so LA is so hysterical. And I had on the, yeah, I had on the, the Blue Otters and I'm driving around and it's hysterical, and I get this song and I put it in, and this song called Way Back. And I put it in and it hit me. I was like, oh my God, this is amazing. I was like, who's he talking to? Speaker 2 00:43:20 What's the deal? And, uh, we ended up connecting and talking and then ended up, uh, signing him to management and, you know, uh, you know, good Time actually launched in the middle of a pandemic, you know? And, um, it was crazy that that happened the way that it did. But, um, it, it happened pretty amazingly that way. And then, you know, it's, uh, Nico just, uh, dropped a song or was dropping a song with him and Zack Brown. Now I just saw that this morning. Yeah, heaven has a bar. That's awesome. So it's really cool. But like, you know, each one comes differently. Like flatland, the way we found Flatland, it was, was a, this is a great story. I love the story. So we were, we were, we had a show Sold Out show in San Antonio, and Morgan was on that tour, and Morgan, um, couldn't play that one show. Speaker 2 00:43:59 He had a radio show. So we, we had to find a, a, a backup band. And, you know, the, the show was sold out. So it was like, all right, what are we gonna do? And, um, I got three bands submitted to me, and one of 'em was Flatland Cal. So I listened to it and I'm like, man, these guys are really good. I go, you know what, these are, these are some Texas boys, let's put 'em on the show. Let's give 'em a shot. And, uh, I had heard a Life where we work out. It's the only song I had heard. And, uh, and I liked it, and I was like, these guys deserve it. So we put 'em on the show. I wasn't at the show, and we put it on the show and I talked to our tour manager afterwards. He goes, man, super nice guys. Speaker 2 00:44:27 They were just so happy to be there playing a, you know, a sold out show in San Antonio, Texas. So we get done, and the next weekend I'm, I'm at home and I'm working in the yard. And, um, I think I was raking leaves. And, uh, I, I was like, you know what? I'm gonna listen to this band. I, I like that one song I, I'm gonna put it on. So I put it on and I started listening to it. And there's songs like February Snow, I love that song. It's a great song. And like, um, no Shade and Traveler. And so I start listening to this and I'm like, man, I really like this. So I call Aaron Tana Baumer agent, um, and I'm like, Hey man, what's going on with this band? He goes, you know, it's weird. They just changed management and agency and they're, and they're we're representing them now at wme. Speaker 2 00:45:04 I'm like, oh, so cool. He's like, yo, you should, you should call them. I'm like, you know what? I'm gonna call their tour manager. So I call our tour manager who had his tour manager's phone number. So I call him, his name's Dylan. And I, I was like, he answers the phone, hello? And I was like, Hey, Dylan, this is, you know, Kathy, I'm Luke Combs manager. And he's like, oh, hey, what's going on? I was like, nothing. I was like, Hey man, I heard that Flatland just changed management and I'd like to throw my hat in the ring. I'm really a big fan of those guys. Could I talk to one of 'em? He goes, oh, that's really weird. They just made me the manager 30 minutes ago, <laugh>. And I was like, whoa, that's so cool. I was like, well, look, here's the deal, man. Speaker 2 00:45:37 I'm a fan. I'm a big fan. If you need anything, call me. I'm not gonna try to poach, I'm not gonna reach out to him. I'm not gonna do anything. If you need anything, feel free. So this is the, this is early December of 19. So in late January of 20, they came to town. This is right before the pandemic. So they came to town and they're like, Hey, can we go have a breakfast? So it was Henry Glasscock, who's their agent, um, Dylan and Clak and myself. And we went to Big Bad Breakfast, which is a fantastic breakfast joint over in the west side. And, uh, shameless plug, hopefully I'll get a free burrito, or I mean a free omelet. I'll buy you burrito. Thank you buddy <laugh>. And, um, so we go over there and, uh, and we have a breakfast and we just talked, you know, and I think the, the whole time is, you know, Cleo was just asking questions about, you know, DSPs and, uh, for the layman digital service providers, which is your Apple and your Spotify and Pandora and, and Amazon. Speaker 2 00:46:26 And you know, how do we get on a playlist? How do we do this? How do we do that? And it was just like a really fun conversation. And I, and I, I I, I made sure to keep telling 'em, cuz Dylan and I had a couple conversations and I was like, you guys got a great man here. Like, you get somebody that passionately believes in what you guys do. Don't, don't ever forget about that. And then we went our separate ways, you know, and then may the end of May, 1st of June, I get a phone call. So now we're, we're in the middle of the pandemic. Everybody's at home, everybody's working from home, everybody's trying to figure things out. And I get a call and, and Dylan's like, Hey, would you mind jumping on a Zoom with the band? And I, and I was like, sure. Speaker 2 00:47:00 I got nothing else going on at, you know, four o'clock in the afternoon, everything, you know, I'm sitting around drinking a medela and looking at the river. So, uh, we get on this Zoom and we talk for over an hour, and I'm just, I'm answering, I'm just fielding questions and talking about kinds of stuff. And this was so new still that like the Zoom cutoff after an hour, it was like the free zoom it, like just, it went dead. And you're just like, wait a second. So we all got back on again and we all, this is, we'd laugh about this all the time, and we get back on and they start talking and they're like, Hey, do you wanna be our manager? And I was like, whoa. I was like, you guys already got a manager? I was like, how about we get off this phone call and I'll, I'll let me talk to Dylan. Speaker 2 00:47:33 So we hanging the phone up and I was like, what's going on? He's like, man, I just, you know, we would, I would really like to talk to you about this. And I was like, okay. I was like, well, what do you want to, like, what, what, what are the things, like I said, what are the, what are the red flags? And he walked over everything. I was like, those really aren't red flags. Those are more like pink flags. Like I can, we can work with that. Like we can throw some bleach on those and get 'em back to white flags. No problem. And, and we did. I was like, you know, if you do this, you do this and we gotta do this and, and this is where it is. And I was like, gimme the real status of like where everything is with the band. Speaker 2 00:48:02 And he did. And some of the things they were in, they were upside down in, and some deals they were in weren't that great. And luckily what has what has happened is with the success of Luke and, and, and all these other artists, it's given me an opportunity to be able to call people and have honest conversations with 'em. So I was able to get them outta some backwards deals, um, as well as then return the favor to the people that did me a favor. I took care of them. So I was like, look, if you do a favor for me, I'll do a favor for you. Like, and I learned that from Shep Gordon about coupons. Like, you know, if you've never watched Superman, one of the greatest documentaries of all time about the guy that I look as my spiritual mentor, like, I look at this guy as like, I wanna be like this guy one day. Speaker 2 00:48:40 And he does, he did things, he gave them coupons. So I was like, man, if you do this for me, I promise you I'll repay it back to you tenfold. And I have, and we got flatland out of that stuff and we said, look, this is the plan. This is what we wanna do. And Dylan and I worked hand in hand, and now Flatland is, is is really, you know, come up in, in doing some really amazing stuff. They're out on tour with Luke, he took 'em to Europe, they're doing their own thing. They're selling out. I mean, we, we were just in Lubbock last weekend and they did 5,000 people, um, close to 6,000 people in Lubbock, Texas. How crazy is that? But like, that's beautiful, Dylan. Then, you know, Dylan created Deep Roots Management, which is a sister company to make Wake and, you know, and, and he has, you know, flat land and he has Josh Abbott in Keller Cox and Dylan Carmichael and Alex Lambert and the Panhandler. Speaker 2 00:49:26 And it's really cool on what he's done. And, you know, he works side by side in the building with me and, and, and you know, we do everything together, you know, and we were able to, you know, create this really cool thing. And his wife Alexis is my assistant, you know, you know, it's, it's it, thank God cuz she keeps everything moving here, <laugh>. Um, but it's been cool to kind of like how that all kind of like, you know, came to fruition. Um, and it's fun. And now we're having like, really cool conversations about, um, a lot of the acts on that roster that are, are growing and, and, and taking them to that next level. So, um, that it's just been so fun. Like, it's just real. It's just fun, you know? And I love that. Speaker 3 00:50:05 I think that's a, a big part of it too is like, as it grows, how do you keep it fun? You know what I mean? Speaker 2 00:50:10 That Well, that's about the culture, you know, it's about it, it's about one, it's about hiring really smart, talented people. Um, I don't know everything. Yeah, Kurt, you're very, you are very talented. There's nobody that plays <laugh>. There is nobody that eats salad like you. That's true. And Beans, you were, yeah, yeah. You're gonna say something else, but I appreciate you keeping it solid <laugh>. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, uh, this is a, everybody's gonna be listening to this podcast very. I know. So how you say Beans, you know? Yeah. It's, uh, hopefully if my nieces listen to this and they, they laugh when, when I say some of this stuff, but no, um, you know, I think the thing about it is, is, um, and, and, and growing the company and, and, and having the right people around, what I try to do is find people smarter than me, which is very easy to do. Speaker 2 00:50:55 And then it's finding the right people that are self-motivated to do what they do. You know? And they're not looking for a quick buck or a quick success in, in a world that is dominated by quick and speed. And I want to be this and I want to have this and, and, and social media and, and the, and the, and the fakeness of all of that. It's like, it still takes time. I mean, look at Haley Whitters 12 years to kinda get where she is right now. Like, that didn't happen overnight. You know, Luke was doing what he was doing for three or four years. Like a lot of these people have been around, but everybody sees these things happening and they want it, they want it to happen. Instant gratification. Instant gratification. And it just doesn't happen like that. So you have to manage those expectations because even though Haley's been here for 12 years, a lot of people are just now discovering her as a new artist. Speaker 2 00:51:40 But I mean, she's Yeah, yeah. The clap, you know, everything. She ain't, and you know, that is what sometimes is frustrating because when you work, I use this analogy all the time, when you're working on top of the rocket, the rocket isn't moving that fast cuz you're moving at the same speed as the rocket. But when you pull back and look sometimes you're like, man, this is going really fast. But sometimes the rocket is just sitting on the launch pad and you're like, you want the rocket to go, but it hasn't been time to launch it yet. So you have to think about that. And you have to understand that. Like, sometimes when you're doing stuff, it might seem like you're going slow, but you're going really fast. But, and then sometimes when you wanna be going really fast, you gotta pull back. You gotta, you gotta slow it down a little bit. Speaker 2 00:52:19 So I think that's one of the things as a manager, uh, that we all have to go through, anybody that manages an artist is managing those expectations of what's happening. Like, you know, and everybody's like, you know, I, I wanna be on this playlist, or I wanna be on that, or I wanna do this mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and, you know, they measure theirselves against their peers. And one thing that Luke has taught me, which is great, which is what is, uh, is run your race. Run your race. And I have to do that as a manager. Like I have to that as a company, like it, it's human nature to look at something else that's your peer and be like, why did they get that? You know, that's human nature. Anybody that would do that. I mean, I, you, you do that your whole life. And my mindset now has been like, congratulations, glad you got that. Speaker 2 00:53:00 I need to go get something for my, so I'm gonna work hard to do that same thing. So I think that's the thing is, is, and it's, it's hard because you're human. Like, you know, these are human beings and they look at things and they're like, man, why don't I, why don't I have that? Or why don't I get that? And it's like, as soon as you can really get back and focus strictly on what you're doing, keep your head down. And then what's gonna happen is you're gonna look up and you're gonna be way in in front of them. You're gonna be way in front of them. And, but it's, the hard thing to do is, is to put your head down and work because everybody likes to look up and look around and they're like, well, why is that person in front of me? Or why is that person getting that? And, and it's, it's tough. It's that. But that's, that's again, that's human nature and we're dealing with humans, Speaker 1 00:53:41 No doubt. I think also the music industry now is, it seems like there's a lot of room for people to make a good living and to take care of their, their band and their family and stuff. It doesn't have to be, you know, the 15 platinum singles or whatever, but there's a lot of room for people to like not have record labels and still make great money and do all that. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:54:04 I mean, I mean there's so many like, just success stories out there of, of this happening. And there, I mean, there's bands out there that you would, you would talk about that you would be like, wait, that, that band's doing that, or they're selling out that room. Or like, wow, that's crazy. How did that happen? Fans? Yeah, it all goes back to the fan. Like there's, I don't care how much money you throw at something, if you don't take care of the fan and you don't have an o an opportunity to connect with them, nothing is gonna work. It's like, uh, this, this started with like early in the, I mean I learned this back from a band called Sister Hazel back in the day. And they would get done with every show and they would go and sign at the merch table every night. Speaker 2 00:54:42 And I would do that with Luke early on. And then now like, like he would get off the stage and he would like, I'd be like, oh, great show. And, you know, hand him a towel to wipe his face off cuz we're playing under like, you know, park hand lights that are, it's like a, it's like a, it's like a convection oven on that stage. And I'd be like, all right, cool, let's go to the merch table and start signing stuff. And he would, he would be like, dude, I just got off stage. I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, you gotta go, gotta go, gotta gotta talk to the fans. And of course, you know, he would get done and he'd be like, thank you. Like, that was awesome. Like, I love doing that. Like, you know, it's like, but you're like, you know, it's so fast. Speaker 2 00:55:12 And like Nico, Nico gets off stage now. Actually every artist does this. They get off the stage. Nico has to change his shirt cuz he sweats so much cause he's so intense on stage, everything dancing. Yeah. Yeah. And then he immediately goes out to the mech table on science all night long. You know, like, I mean, I remember some shows with Brantley that Luke was at, that we would go up to the concourse and Ethan, our tour manager would've to stand there and there'd be a line of like 300 people that wanna get a picture with Luke and he would stand there and do that. And we got, we did it to a point where we couldn't do it anymore. Right. But everybody does that still. I mean, uh, when Drew was on tour with us, drew would come out, he would get off the stage and then he would run to merch and then sign, and then Ashton McBride would come on. Speaker 2 00:55:48 He would go back to the front house, stand there, watch the show, run back out to merch, sign some more, come back, and then at the end of the show run back out and sign all night long. And that's so important. And taking pictures with fans and stopping to do that because you are their idol. Like, you know, and, and, and it's weird being an idol. Like, you know, a lot of artists are very uncomfortable being an idol, uh, or being idolized. Um, it's weird. It's, it's, it's when when somebody asks you, can I have a photo with you? Like, and, and it'll happen to me. I mean, people know me because of, of my relationship with the artist and stuff like that. And they're like, can I take a photo with you? I'm like, sure. Absolutely. I think that's great. I'd love to do that. And, and how did you hear about the artist? How did you hear about the show? What do you like, where did you find them? I love talking to them and doing that. You know, I go out there and watch the show from the pit every night. You know, it's, and then I walk around the venue and I look at the merch setup and I look at the fans and what are they wearing and what are they looking at and, you know, what is, what's a demographic and that kind of stuff. So Aren, Speaker 1 00:56:43 Aren't you taking notes? Don't you have like a journal about the shows and stuff like that? I Speaker 2 00:56:46 Do, I take notes about every single show. I look at those things. I pay attention. What, Speaker 1 00:56:51 How did we sound in Indie <laugh>? Speaker 2 00:56:53 I thought you sounded great, Kurt. Hell yeah. Speaker 1 00:56:55 You never Speaker 2 00:56:55 Do <laugh>, Kurt. You never, ever play bad. Is that what you want to hear? Yes. Thank Speaker 1 00:57:00 You. You've never, Speaker 2 00:57:00 You, you've never, you've never dropped a note ever. <laugh> true. I could. That's true. I could ask Tyler King that and he, he he something to say something different. But Speaker 1 00:57:08 That's why Tyler's not on the podcast right now. Exactly. Speaker 2 00:57:10 <laugh>. But, um, you know, I think the the thing is, is that, you know, if the fans aren't taken care of and the, and the mantra that we have around here, we have, we have two that we live by. Um, one is fans first, fans first on everything. It's like, how does it affect the fan? And it, and if it affects the fan in a positive way, let's do it. And it affects the fan in a negative way, we're not gonna do it. And if it doesn't affect the fan at all, why do it at all? Speaker 1 00:57:31 So what is, like from a managers side, what are the drawbacks from putting the fans first? Speaker 2 00:57:39 Well, sometimes financially or like Speaker 1 00:57:41 Yeah, yeah. Specifically. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:57:43 I mean, like, you know, sometimes you have to do things that are gonna cost you more money to do. That's a fan engagement thing, you know. Um, but like for instance, uh, like, you know, Luke, Luke does, uh, his fan club and Nico and everybody, they do their fan clubs for free those to meet him. They, they don't charge for that. You know, they wanna have that opportunity. Yeah. Free meet in greet free. Speaker 1 00:58:03 He's like, do some, do some artists charge for meet and greets. Yeah, for sure. Speaker 2 00:58:06 Yeah. Some charge and some charge a lot of money. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and Luke, you know, does this for the bootleggers and it's a lottery and it's 25 people and a plus one. And they get to come in and, and ask questions and get a photo with them and drink a beer with them and, and that kind of stuff. And it's, Speaker 1 00:58:19 My buddy got engaged at a Luke Holmes meet and greet. Yeah, Speaker 2 00:58:22 That's pretty cool. <laugh>. So it's like, you know, that's, that's the type of stuff that, that you do. Like Nico does a meet and greet before his show where he plays some music and, and for the fans. And then after the show he still goes out and meets everybody that wants to come through the merch line. Um, or the, the step and repeat that he has outside of the merch table. Um, and he signs stuff like, and he does it every night. Um, like I said, drew does it every night. Uh, Hailey, I mean all of them do. And they understand that you can't have a million fans until you meet a million fans. And I think that's a line from either Garth or Taylor or, you know, one of the giants mm-hmm. <affirmative> that does this. And, and you have to do that. I mean, you hear the stories of back in the day when it was either Garth or Taylor that went to fanfare and signed things for like 24 hours. Speaker 2 00:59:04 Like they do that L Luke, what Luke does now is like, I, in the night, Mindy, he's like, go get stuff for me to sign. Like just go get it. And like, we'll run out into the crowd and grab a bunch of stuff and get it signed and bring it back because he can't walk out there. Cause he, he get mobbed. Yeah. But he's like, man, they want this stuff and I'll do that for 'em and Right. Or like, when we stopped, we, we went the other day and we did a thing of a stormy warren and, and, uh, we're coming out of series Hell Stormy guys a genius. There was a guy standing out there and he is like, oh my god, Luke Combs, can I get a picture? And Luke's like, yeah man, come on over and snap the photo. And he is like, man, thank you so much. Speaker 2 00:59:32 Like, that makes me so happy more than anything is when a fan and an artist get to have that interaction, like everybody will be like, oh, Kathy's gonna love this one. And I, and I do, like, I get, I get caught up in it because it's so amazing because they look at them and they idolize them because of the music or the, or like, we get these messages and I love reading 'em is when an artist or a fan writes in, it's like, you got me through this. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> or you know, I was battling cancer and I listened to your music every day going through chemotherapy. Or I lost my father and this helped me get through it. Or, uh, I had a really bad breakup or I lost my job and it, it was your music that got me through. You know, how cool that is. Speaker 2 01:00:09 Like that that your music, that the, the the, the art that you created in, in, in the, in the, in the in the product that you give to people is amazing that they can use that and, and, and get something from it. And that's just so rewarding. And I'm luckily a byproduct of it. Um, cuz I can't write a song. I can't play an instrument. I would, I couldn't even play a tambourine if I had to <laugh>. And it's, it, I, I'm a fan, I'm a fan of music and I listen to music as a fan and I look at things as a fan would, and, and, and that's why it's, it's great. You know, cuz you guys will be talking Kurt and you'll be like, oh, this is in G or this is a half step up or half step down. I don't know what any of that means. Speaker 2 01:00:49 I, that literally is, is is another language to me. And I'm, I'm in your world today, buddy. Yeah. And, and that's why. But it's fun because I can listen as a fan and be like, that song sounded great. Like, that was really cool. Like that, that, that watching, I love watching fans at a show and see a song where they're crying or they're laughing or they're, or they're hugging somebody because absolutely that song brought something to them. And then that's like, that's just what we do. Like fans first, it's like everything that we, and we, we write at f a n S period f the number one r s t period because that's what it is. The fans are first. And if you do that, you can't go wrong. It just depends on how fast we can make it all happen, you know, with, with them. Speaker 2 01:01:30 But you, like I was at a Luke show in Dallas and a woman in the meet and greet pulled me to the side and, and, and she pulled her shirt back on her, on her collarbone. She had a Nico Moon tattoo. Oh wow. I was like, wow. She's like, I'm one of the first hundred they got the Happy Cowboy tattooed on me. So like to be at a Luke show and she was there, but she also had a Nico Moon tattoo because she loves his music was like a full circle moment for me to kind of see that kind of, that kind of happening. So, um, but yeah, that's what we do with the fans first. And the other macho that we have here is, um, you know, the one that I believe in, you can say it g I can say it and okay, it's g a f and it's give a fuck. Speaker 2 01:02:06 And you know, that has been from the beginning, it's like, it's, it's vulgar but it's, uh, you have to, you have to give a fuck every day about what you do and, and who you are and the people that you work with and, and you hire people that give a fuck. You know, you hire people that, that love to be able to do that same thing. So that's what's cool is that you have people in the office that also believe in that mantra, that care that are at the office. Like, I love nothing more that when my phone tells me that somebody's in the office at 7:00 AM like HB or Julia or Tyler or Carrado or one of those guys are, are gonna be in here and, and I see that and I just smile. Or they arm the office at 11 o'clock at night cuz they were working on something, you know, and, and, and like, you know, I know that they, they care that much cuz they're doing that. Speaker 2 01:02:50 Or I get an email at 2:00 AM cuz they're up doing something like that. Might nobody else pays attention to that stuff. But I do. Cuz that's, that's what giving a fuck means, like, you know, putting in that time and, and, and caring and like, you know, working seven days a week cuz like, you know, when Luke's on tour, I'm on tour with him. And so like Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, I'm in the office. Thursday I start in the office, then I usually fly out that afternoon. Then Friday we're on site doing the show. Saturday we have the show, we're working all day Sunday, we're traveling home Monday we're back to work again. It's seven days a week. Um, and people are like, well, you know, where do you find time for yourself? I was like, I don't need time for myself. Like, this is so much fun that it's, it's, it's, it's amazing. Speaker 2 01:03:31 Like, I, I, like I said, I get to wake up every day and I, this is what I get to do. And it's, it's, it's very rewarding, you know, but I preach it to my staff, like, I'm like, take time. Take time to relax, take that. And they don't, I mean, they all work harder or harder. I do harder than I do, but like, well, I know you're always like off, like, I'm surprised you're not in Costa Rica right now, you know, a couple days off, like on the beach maybe. Um, but it's like, it's having, having a staff that gives a fuck about their artist and loves them as much as, as they do, um, is really cool. You know? And, and it's like, it's empowering them to do that. Like, I don't micromanage anybody. We have a, a management philosophy over here. Um, it's called upload download, you know, where a lot of people have download upload. Speaker 2 01:04:12 And what I mean by that is like somebody has a problem, they come to me and they're like, here's my issue, or here's what I got going on. Can you gimme some advice? And they upload to me, I process and I download back to them where I've worked in a lot of places where it's like they just come in there and you sit at your desk and they're like, okay, you do this, this and this and do this and do this and this, and they're downloading to you. And they're like, all right, come back to me and they upload back to you. That is so backwards to me, you know? And I hate that. And I, and I've told everybody that works here. I was like, I am not gonna handhold you. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna hover over you. I'm not gonna do any of that. Speaker 2 01:04:42 If that's what you need in your environment, you're not gonna get that from me. You're gonna get autonomy. I don't have a vacation policy here. You come and go as you want. If you work six months outta the year in, you know, Tahiti and the other six months, uh, in, in Nashville, I don't care, as long as your artist isn't calling me, I don't care that you can go work and do whatever you want. You don't have to ask for time off. Just tell me you're not gonna be around, put it in the calendar and I know you're not there. Like, I don't, I don't want to track days of people in their time off. Like, I just don't care. Um, and you give people that autonomy. What I've seen is that the more freedom I give, the more they wanna work, the more, the more like, um, just like go do whatever. Speaker 2 01:05:22 We have a, a young lady that that's here that, you know, has some stuff going on in her personal life with her family. I'm like, go, go be with them if you need us, reach out. And when, and, and when you're ready to come back, come back. Like there's, I, I'm not worried about you at all and talk about the weight that that takes off of somebody. But I've worked in places, like I worked in a lot of startups where like, you had to, like, you got two weeks vacation your first year and then after this you got this, or like, stuff like that. I'm like, ah, man, I hate that. Like, I just, I hate that more than anything. And like, you know, during the pandemic, you know, I found my health and, and I wanted to give it to my employees. So like, I gave all my employees healthcare and it was like, and like, just the, the joy of being able to do that and see, and I'm not trying to, I'm not, and I trust me, I'm not trying to pat myself on the back, but it was like, I saw all the things that I didn't like in companies that I worked at and was like, I'm not gonna be that guy. Speaker 2 01:06:09 So if it cost me a little bit of money, I'd rather do that and have people here that like, are paid a fair wage, have benefits, have a four oh <unk> plan. Um, you know, a lot of the females that that work here, a lot of them couldn't go to their lady doctors, which we know dudes can walk around for a bro with a broken leg for six months and not go to the doctor. Right. <laugh>. But women need to go to the doctor. Like, it's just, and and, and I was able to do that for them and like, you know, I had three of them write me or call me in like in tears saying thank you. And I'm just like, dude, I I I want you to have this. Like, I think it's an amazing thing and, and I want you to be happy and healthy and, you know, have a family Amen. Speaker 2 01:06:46 And do that kind of stuff. And, and does that cost me money? Sure. But it's more an investment. It's an investment in them is is human beings that I want to do. And, and I know a lot of people don't do that, and that's cool. Like, you know, whatever, they can do whatever they want. It's like, but that's what I do. And that's why like, my management company is a one for one ratio of, of, uh, employees to artists. It's actually a little bit more than that. We have 19 artists and 22 employees, um, which a lot of people would say, man, that's super top heavy. I'm like, yeah, but my employees don't have to work 90 hours a week. They don't have to do that. Like a and we're training younger people to come up, uh, very quickly and empowering them. So does it cost me more money in salary every year and stuff like that? Sure. But again, it's an investment in this company that I'm gonna leave to my employees one day, you know, because like that's what this is designed to do. Like, I'm not, I can't take make Wake with me. Make Wake is a, is a culture, it's an ethos and, and the right, and the goal is to leave it to all of them so they can, they can have that and stuff like that. So, um, that's the, that's the beauty of what where we've created here or what we are creating here is, is that Speaker 1 01:07:51 I love being here in this building. I love, I find it so inspiring. I love all the people that work here, and I come in here obviously for Luke stuff, but also to like work from Quake and shoot merch and stuff. And I always just have such a blessed time in here. Well Speaker 2 01:08:03 It's, it's, it's, it's, it's a lot of fun. And again, like I think that's what you, going back to the whole idea of de the demystifying the music, uh, industry, you know, we have a fun office. Like, you know, it's not like a, a like something you would see, you know, somewhere else. Like, you go out there and there's like, there's a big buck hunter and there's a, there's a, there's a golden tea and there's a ping pong table. And like, you know, there'll be times where I'll walk into an office and I'll challenge somebody to a ping pong match and usually get beat. But I mean, I try. Um, but, uh, but like the, the whole idea of it, it's, it's a very open environment and it's a very, it's a, like, it's a very safe and inclusive environment, you know. Um, like I said, I have, you know, two thirds of my staff is female, you know, um, you know, and I empower them to do what it is. Speaker 2 01:08:45 Like Sophia, this year, you know, I think Sophia's 27 years old and was recognized as One Billboard's, um, the women music. Yeah. Um, that's amazing. Like, I get so excited for that. Yeah. Um, you know, I love being able to have, and like I look at this like, you know, the, the, the structure of like the, the things that we see, like there's TV shows out there like Empire and stuff like that, that like show the music business a certain way. And I watch those things and I, and I wanna like make sure that we're never like that ever. Yeah. You know? Um, and I, and I work really hard to make sure that like, that doesn't happen. And, um, you know, it's, it's fun over here. Look, it's stressful. Like ma being a manager is the hardest job because like, like the agent is, is booking the shows and the business manager is handling the money and the lawyer is doing the lawyering things and that kind of stuff. Speaker 2 01:09:28 And they do their, and they do their specialty. The manager has to do all of that, you know, and they have to rely on all of that. And then they have to deal with the artist, and then they have to deliver the good news and the bad news. Like, you know, um, and a lot of that happens. Like, it's not all roses. Like, you know, there are some things you have to say. It's like, Hey, your singles coming off of radio or this song didn't work, or, you know, we have to, we have to do this something here. But then, you know, you also are like, Hey man, you just had a platinum record. Or Hey, you know, you're gonna play the Opry for the first time. Like, you know, so you get the highs and the lows. But the goal is to try to like even it out to where it's like all you know, you know, all great. Speaker 2 01:10:04 It's the Libra it's the Libra in me. Like, you know, I'm this, I, I try to stay in balance at all times. But like, like I said, tonight I get to go tonight and watch Megan Patrick, who's a, you know, Canadian country artist, dudes, who's like, you guys all know Megan really well. Of course, yeah. And she's debuting at the Opry tonight. Like, you know, how cool is that? And, uh, I'm so excited to go stand there next to Randy, uh, you know, McFadden, who is her, her her manager and, and have my arm around her. And Randy wrote me the most sweet text message this morning about like how she's a great human. She is a human, she's a superhuman. And like, she's like, thank you for saving me and like seeing in me. And like, we talk about it here all the time. It's like, we're like the land of misfit toys. Speaker 2 01:10:41 It's like somebody didn't fit in somewhere else, but they fit in here. And that's the beauty of it. Like, you know, Jared was somewhere else and you know, Sophia had just come outta college and Randy was somewhere else and Mallory was somewhere else. And I mean, Eric, who's the day-to-day for Flatland, and Josh Abbott was an assistant over at W M E that got let go during the pandemic. And you know, he wasn't, he wasn't an agent, he was always a manager. He just didn't know it. Like, you know, it's like unlocking that stuff and like Liz that works for us that like, is was a, was a TV news anchor. Yeah. That now is on the merch team here. That also is, you know, creating a pr like side of, of, of what we do internally, which is really cool. Speaker 1 01:11:20 Yeah. She emailed me about a podcast. Yeah. So yeah. Pretty Speaker 2 01:11:24 Cool. Which is really cool. But like even Alicia that here is like, you know, Alicia had worked at, at labels and she's actually a manager for Tyler Dial, but also she launches all the records internally and stuff like that because that's what she loves to do. It's like, well if you love to do that, then let's figure out a way to do it. You know? Um, usually ends up costing me a lot of money. But I, I'm, I'm actually okay with that because again, we're investing in people and we're investing in the, in the future of what we're gonna be and what Make Wake was five years ago is not what Make Wake is today, which w won't be what it is five years from now. And hopefully Sophia and the staff hasn't fired me by then. <laugh>. Um, like hopefully I still have a job. Yeah. But that's, that's some of the stuff that is, you know, inside the walls. Um, you know, these four walls of what Make Wake is, is <laugh>, uh, is a, uh, is is pretty amazing, you know mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, and it's, it's fun. So, um, but what other questions about the music industry did you wanna also ask? Cause I didn't wanna keep turn this into like a No, Speaker 1 01:12:20 No, no Capy thing, but I did. So one thing I'm confused about is like the ticketing and all this like Ticketmaster and I know like Zach did his without Ticketmaster and then like Taylor does hers through Ticketmaster. Sure. So, um, so I know like may correct me if I'm wrong, but like Luke does release like a bunch of tickets, like $35 tickets or something or whatever. Yeah. Speaker 2 01:12:43 $25 tickets actually, you know, it's, you have control of what you do. Everybody also thinks that like, oh, you don't have control of what the ticket prices are. Well, Speaker 1 01:12:51 Some artists don't. Is that true? Speaker 2 01:12:53 If they do a tour deal, they kind of do lose control of it. Yeah. Cuz if they take the money up front and then they don't, they lose control because now the, the responsibilities of the promoter, like, you already have your money, you gotta be in control of it. But we've never done that. We've never taken a tour deal and we control all the pricing. You know, and you know, you, you know, there's certain things that you have to do cuz like the, the, the, the evil person in all of this are ticket scalpers. They've hundred percent ruined our industry. Yes. So the people that are out there, the, the, the StubHubs of the world and stuff like that that are out there, those everybody, like, they tout themselves. They're bad guys. They're, they're the bad guys. I'm sorry, I don't care if anybody hears, you don't have to apologize. Yeah, that's true. And we have to fight them and we have to do everything we can because these, they create these bots and they go and they buy the tickets and then they put 'em out and nine times outta 10, the tickets they have listed on the site aren't even theirs yet. They're trying to buy tickets off of people and get tickets in there to, to sell. And Speaker 1 01:13:47 Jesus, it's worse than I thought. Oh, Speaker 2 01:13:49 It's horrible. We do over the limit sweeps where we're able to go in and see a certain IP address, it's buying a certain amount of tickets. And if they buy like a hundred tickets, we kill all those tickets and we let 'em know like those tickets aren't good anymore. And then we, we try to resell 'em, we do everything we can to fight them, but they're, they have like, and I'm not kidding, they have like warehouses with like tables with computers and cell phones and routers that have different IP addresses on it so they can like work around the system to try to do this. Like they're evil, evil people. Damn man. And we do everything that we can to combat them and what, you know, and, and what Ticketmaster just went through I think, um, with the whole Taylor thing is, is the infrastructure of what these systems are also on get bombarded. Speaker 2 01:14:30 Cuz what they do is they forget about the, the strength of the fan. And then what happens is, is you have these, you have these, these bots that go in there and then they also clog the system and the fans are coming in at the same time. And these bots are faster because they're computers than the, the them when people can type. So they're getting in in front of 'em and like the, the, the evilness of these, these programmers that write these programs that go around people. And I'm probably gonna get hacked now or something for like, coming up with that. But like, it just sucks, man. It really sucks for these fans because these fans want these tickets. Like, you know, and we work really hard to like sell as many tickets as we can in the presale through Ticketmaster verified, which is jumping through hoops. Speaker 2 01:15:09 But it's like, look, sign up, we're gonna send you an email. This email is gonna verify that this phone belongs to you. And then, all right, we're gonna send you a unique code and you use that code to buy this ticket and stuff like that. And, and we have to limit the amount of tickets and stuff like that. But we do everything that we can to protect the fan. We do it everywhere we can, but it's, it's, it's so hard. But you know, what Ticketmaster got caught up in is, I think it was a, it was a, a perfect storm of all sorts of stuff that happened. And I think that there's, there's probably a little culpability on their side. Like, you know, maybe they, something got uncovered that, you know, they were maliciously doing something. I don't know. But I don't think that they are the, the evil empire that it is. Speaker 2 01:15:47 Like could ticketing fees be lower? Yes. Are you hearing me out there? Please. Lower ticketing fees. Yes. Um, but like it's, I I know a lot of that stuff goes into it and um, you know, it's, it's, the scalpers are the evil, evil people and we tell people all the time, do not buy tickets to his scalpers. Cuz every time you buy a ticket through a scalper, you're empowering them. The devil gets their wings <laugh>. Yeah, it's, yeah, it does. And so what we try to do is, like, one thing that, that Luke does very well is hit, he releases tickets every show, um, the day of the show or or the day before the show, he, he releases, um, uh, tickets that we don't, that we're not using that maybe we have as holds or comps or that kind of stuff. We release those and we try to open up seats wherever we can and, and, and release them and stuff like that. Speaker 2 01:16:31 So, um, so if you go to the, to the site and, and we have to be very careful too cause as soon as we open the seats up, the scalpers like come in immediately. So we have to like turn on like everything that we can to like combat these jack asses. It's like the matrix or something. It really is. It really is. And it's sad because they've ruined our industry. Like they, they're, they're like, oh no, we're the guys that are helping you get tickets that you can't get. It's like, no, you're just being dicks and you're, and you're, and you're, and you're capitalizing on people that are passionate people that want to go see their fans. Like they want to go see it and it's just not fair. So, you know, but one thing Luke has always done is he's always offered a $25 ticket and he always will like, he's like, it's like Costco hotdog. Speaker 2 01:17:13 Essentially what it is, is the idea was this, we're gonna have fans that live paycheck to paycheck and we have fans that probably make minimum wage. And what says a fan that can't afford a a $75 ticket or a $50 ticket by what, what the market bears, let's offer a $25 ticket. We offer an entire section and it's like, it's 25 bucks. So you and your and your significant other can buy a ticket and come to the show and, and, and get parking and, and, and do everything for a hundred bucks. And that might be all your disposable income for a month, a year. Like that might be the only show you get to go to that year. And for Luke to do that. And then nine times outta 10, what we're doing is we're going up and we're like upgrading them. We're like, you know what, you're in the $25 section. Speaker 2 01:17:52 You know what? I got a pair of pit tickets. You're going to the pit now. Like that's, I've seens the cool Yeah. Like ticket fairing. It's so fun to go and do that. It's like, let's go take care of some people. Like we, we have room for 84 people in the pit. Let's go get 'em, bring 'em down. Like that's so fun to be able to do that. Cause like the fire marshal might change the code that day and they might be like, okay, I'm going from seven square feet per person down to six square feet per person and now you can add 40 people to the pit or whatever. It's, it's like, let's go get 'em. And, and we and we give 'em to our, and it, that's like cool. The, one of the funnest things to be able to go and do is put a wristband on somebody to be like, you're going to the pit. Speaker 2 01:18:24 Like, you know, it's just, it's so fun. But we're very, we're very careful about all that stuff. Like we, we try to find ways, I mean, Nico's had to do it. We've had to kill tickets where he's sold out shows and we do an OTL and we find out that, you know, what is an otl? So that's the over to limit. So like when somebody, like a scalper goes in and buys a bunch of tickets and it's the same IP address, we can go in and see that and then we'll, we'll sweep 'em and then we'll kill those tickets. Um, now sometimes it hurts because a, a fan has ended up buying a ticket and then I usually deal with it there. Like they show like, my ticket doesn't work Now. It's like, did you buy that on StubHub? Yeah. It's like, all right, look, you can come into the show, but don't ever do that again. Speaker 2 01:19:00 Don't empower the evil people. Um, and so Post of Hope. Yeah, exactly. Got it. So, um, but that's the thing. Like those are the bad guys. Look, I I I, you, you have to have ticketing companies. You know, you, you have to. Um, and I think what's going to happen is, I think with the, everything that happened with Taylor and, and uh, with Zach Bryan and stuff like that, I, I think it what it is, it, it really opened up their eyes a little bit to be like, you know what? We need to be a little bit more mindful of what's going on with the fan. And hopefully they create programs like Ticketmaster created Ticketmaster verified to combat scalpers. So what I hope keeps happening is they just keep doing more of that. Like, I would love nothing more than to put StubHub out of business. Speaker 2 01:19:39 Uh, I know it's not going to, cuz it's a billion dollar industry, right. And you can't take down a billion dollar industry. But like hopefully our lawmakers can work on something like that. Like instead of attacking Ticketmaster, why don't you attack StubHub? And the people that take this, the money right from these fans like this is they hold it over their heads and they charge like five and six and 10 times what a ticket should cost. And they're profiting on this just so everybody knows. The artist sees none of that, a hundred percent, none of that. And people don't understand that. They, they think it's like, I see messages all the time and I've gotten to the point now where I start responding to 'em and they're like, Luke, I saw a ticket for yours for $2,500. I'm like, you're on a secondary, you're on a third party site and you're, you're giving them your money. And Luke doesn't see a dime of that, like a dime. And Speaker 3 01:20:23 I boot like Tor mech. Speaker 2 01:20:24 Exactly. It's like, don't do that. Like don't buy a t-shirt in the lot in the parking lot. Like that sucks when they do that. So I hate all of that when people do that kind of stuff. Speaker 1 01:20:33 Yeah, I know. Didn't, like Zach did and kudos to Zack for trying to prevent as much of this. Everyone tries to prevent it in their own way. Yeah. But he had like, you can't resell the tickets on his or something. And then, and then the poor guy, like I feel for him because then he's getting, people are complaining no matter what it seems like. Right. It's everyone's bitches all the, the Speaker 2 01:20:54 Time. It's a, it's a lose lose situation, but you're, you have to just do as much as you can. You have to do more good than bad. Yeah. You know, and there's things you can turn on like paperless ticketing, so that means everybody has to do it on their phone. Well some people want to have that paper ticket. You're like, maybe it's a nostalgia or something like that. But you're like, I'm sorry, like I'm sorry I upset you, but like, this is the only way we can do this. Or like, non-transferable tickets, like where you can't buy it and then transfer it to somebody else. Like if I buy a ticket and the three of us are going to a show, the three of us have to show up together at the same time. Well some people are like, that's inconvenient for me. I'm sorry, but I'm keeping these tickets out of the hands of the scalper. Speaker 2 01:21:27 Cause if they can't transfer 'em, they can't sell 'em. Right. You know, so it's like, that's the kind of stuff that we work hard at doing. We're doing everything we can, but these people are just really bad. But, you know, I know Zach did a thing with access ticketing and you know, they worked really hard to make sure that the fan, the tickets got in the hands of the fans and there were certain times and, and they did everything they can. And I mean, everybody's doing the best that they can, but it's the scalpers man. They're just, they're evil, evil, evil people. Speaker 3 01:21:53 Yeah. That's such a, it's such a sad thing because again, like you say, it's fans first. Right. And that's not fans first. No. Speaker 2 01:22:00 That's nothing about that. That's profiteering first. Second. Yes. Yeah, that's, that's fans 53rd down their list. Like they don't care about that. No. And, and I was hoping that the pandemic would've just put 'em all out of business cuz they had bought so many tickets and, and stuff like that happened. And, but it didn't, unfortunately. But, you know, they're back as strong as ever, you know, and mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But, you know, I'm glad that Taylor, you know, fights for her fans. I'm glad that, you know, the people like Luke are out there fighting for their fans and, and, and making a difference in, in going after them. And like, you know, it's, it's, it's just gonna take time And, you know, everybody warned us in the beginning like, you know, don't do it. It's like nobody in country music uses verified and now a lot of people in music are using it because it does make you jump through hoops. Okay. It makes, and you never wanna put a barrier in front of somebody that's trying to buy something, you know? But if they want it bad enough, they'll go through any barrier to get to it. And that's what we learned. So Speaker 1 01:22:51 Luke, Luke has a luxury of doing that. Cause he does fans. Speaker 2 01:22:54 He does. And, you know, and, and as it, and as these artists grow and, and, and when you do that, I'll be the first one to be like, look, we're going to do this and we're gonna see a hit in the beginning. It's gonna, it's gonna be a deterrent, but it's the right thing to do. And if you keep doing the right thing, karma will come back and pay you in droves Yes. For doing the right thing. Speaker 3 01:23:12 Yep. Yeah. Everybody wants a moment. Right. And that's what a ticket is. A ticket is that moment in time when you get to see that artist at that point in their career. Yep. Whether it's that $10 ticket that's up there or $8 ticket. Yeah. Or it's the paying for the pit ticket and getting there. Yeah. But if you are able to get that pit ticket for $150 instead of $350 Yeah. Then you have the room for the hotel. Yeah. You know, you have the room to bring that fan that might not have got to go with you otherwise. Yeah. And Speaker 2 01:23:40 Unfortunately some people are like, are going into debt to get these tickets and stuff like that. And that sucks, man. I hate hearing that. And I wish I could make everything free for everybody, but that's just not how the economics of it work. You know? I mean, we're supposed to Yeah. People have no idea how much it costs to put on a show. I mean, the buses and the trucks and the hands and the staging and the light and the band. The band is so expensive. <laugh> so expensive. I mean, the amount of food you have to have at catering for certain people that have exactly what they want at catering beans. Speaker 3 01:24:11 Oh, for example. Speaker 2 01:24:13 Um, but it's like, uh, but you know, the, the, the, the mountain of people it takes to put on a show for eight guys to stand on a stage, it's, it's an army of people. I mean, and, and you know, all of that goes into this kind of stuff and people don't see that. And the, the amount of people behind the scenes from producers and engineers and the people at the label, I mean, there are thousands of people that touch, um, the, the chore of combs. Yeah. Thousands. And I'm, I'm not exaggerating. There's thousands of people and the economy of scale that he does when he puts on a show and the amount of beer and popcorn and parking at attendants and ushers and, and all those things that go into it are, it's, it's massive. You know? But that also happens at a show that, that somebody's playing in a bar, you know, cuz there's bartenders there and there's door guys there Yeah. Speaker 2 01:25:02 And there's sound guys there and they all, you know, make a living off of that. You know, and you know, the, and the thing that a lot of people don't understand is the artist gets paid last. Artists doesn't get paid first artists doesn't get a salary. They get whatever is left at the end, you know? And you know, in the, in early on, there's nothing. Right. And the artists, the the band members are making more than the artist is making, you know? Yep. And and that's so true. And that's a and and a lot of people don't understand that. They just think that all this money is there and they have all this stuff and they don't like they's, I mean, they're, they're broke, you know? And, and, but they're, and they're, because they're entrepreneurs. I mean, an artist is the purest form of entrepreneurship. Speaker 1 01:25:40 Yeah. It's like you take these guitar lessons and start writing songs, next thing you know, you're worrying about, you know, paying your monitor guy or you know, whatever, all this crazy stuff. It's like it is a business. Yeah. And when Speaker 2 01:25:52 We lost 27% of our workforce, our skilled workforce for the pandemic, you know, that's scary. So you have, you had, you had tour managers and bus drivers and truck drivers and, and agents and, and everybody that said, a lot of people said, you know what, I'll never want to go through this again. I'm getting out of this. You know, some went to film and tv, some went into tech, some went into like, they just got outta the business altogether. Like I can't deal with the stress anymore. Right. And, and it also probably gave a lot of people that were looking for a way out and gave them a way out, you know, and or let them go start a family or something like that. And, you know, we lost a lot of people and the industry is still feeling it today with like, having competent drivers or having people, uh, you know, tour managers out there or people that know what to do or how to settle a show or that stuff that a lot of people got thrown into roles that they didn't know how to do. Um, because we just needed bodies. You know, cuz everybody came back at one time, not just country. All music came back at the exact same time. So there was, there weren't venues available. And then all of a sudden you're like, well, I gotta do a show on a Tuesday. Well, that's the only night that there's availability in that room, you know? Speaker 1 01:26:52 Yeah. If you're out there looking for a gig, learn how to drive a bus <laugh> because you'll work. Right? Speaker 2 01:26:58 Yeah. You'll never not be busy. You know, I know you'll, you'll make six figures driving a tour bus, you know, easily because they need people out there doing that. You know? Um, just don't drive from me first. Like, I drive, drive from somebody else. <laugh>. Uh, but, uh, yeah, so it's like the, the, the workforce itself lost a lot of people. Um, and, and we're still feeling it, you know, but a lot of people stepped up, you know, a lot of people stepped up and said, mm-hmm <affirmative>, I can do the job I give me. So it also gave the opportunity for people to step up and become, uh, a level of like, maybe they were an assistant tour manager or maybe they were a merch guy that really wanted be a manager or tour manager and something like that, that love being on the road. Speaker 2 01:27:36 Cuz you know, you have people that love being on the road and you have people that hate being on the road and you have to find out where that person falls in the, in the world and that kind of stuff. So, um, that's another thing. And you know, we're still figuring it out, but like, there's a shortage on buses, there's a shortage on trucks, there's a shortage on, on everything out there. And, you know, you have to have, um, those skilled people out there. It's like if we had a shortage of, you know, doctors and lawyers and stuff like that, you know, that hurts. It's hurting us right now. And, and we're, and we're figuring it out. But luckily a lot of people are stepping up and raising their hand, being like, I'm ready to learn. Show me what to do and let's go. And we're figuring it out. Speaker 1 01:28:11 Heck yeah. Fucking crazy. Well, I wanna share, uh, my favorite happy story. Oh God no, it's a good one. Okay. <laugh>. Um, well long time ago, um, Luke was starting to tour. Yep. And, but I already had a touring gig and I was playing for Janet Kramer, which is Big Deal. And I was on a bus and Luke's like, congrats on the Janet gig, but like, you'll be in my band one day. And I was like, kind of laughed it off. Cause I was making $250 a show or 2 75 plus per dm Big money. Yeah. And which was actually, she paid better than most at the time for that level. But anyway, but then I remember we played Tortuga when I was with Michael Ray. Yeah. And then you came up and you were like, Luke's ready for you. And I'm like, like, ready for me? What? Like what do you mean? He's like, you're gonna be in Luke's band now. Luke's ready for you to be in his band. And I was like, okay, cool. And then we just like sat on the beach and like figured Speaker 2 01:29:04 It Speaker 1 01:29:04 Out. Yeah. Just talked it over. And I smoked a cigar and premium Speaker 3 01:29:09 Cigar. Speaker 1 01:29:09 That was probably beginning of 2017, I guess. Yeah. Speaker 2 01:29:12 It was Tortuga 17. Yeah. And, um, you know, and I, and we know how that kind of like, you know, it all happens. It's like, you know, it's ready to move to that new, that new place and stuff like that. Cause that happens a lot in our industry, you know, I mean, there's artists that I've managed that are with other managers now and they're thriving. You know, it just wasn't the right fit for me. And, uh, and I think the same thing, you know, was with you. It's like you were ready for, you know, something different and, and, and what you are. And, and, and look at you now though, I mean, not only are you a fantastic pedal seal player, but you've learned to play fiddle and, uh, and Yeah. But you're, you're, you're doing it like it's, and, and, and it, it it afforded you the opportunity to grow and, and to do what you do. Speaker 2 01:29:48 And like, you know, as our, as the utility player in Luke's band and you know, it's amazing to watch you go out there and, and, and play every night and, and, and see you do that stuff. So it's like, it's just so much of a joy for you to be sitting here and talking about that. It's, it's for me to, to to have that. And then now you're a accomplished photographer and that kind of stuff. So it's like, it's really cool to kind of just see, you know, you as an artist also grow and, and do what you do. So appreciate it, man. And, and a podcast with you guys and, and that kind of stuff. So it's really cool. But like, yeah, that was a, that was a, that was a crazy day how that kinda all came together and, you know, and it was just, you're like, yeah, that was not, Speaker 1 01:30:19 How premeditated was that? It probably wasn't. It Speaker 2 01:30:21 Really wasn't. Yeah. It was like, Speaker 1 01:30:22 It was just time ago. Hey, there's Kurt. Oh yeah, I forgot about him. All right, let's get that guy. Speaker 2 01:30:26 Yeah. But no, it was just like, you know, and I think it's, it's, it's how we found everybody, you know, and having the, the band that we do, I mean, the band that you guys have on stage is like, I'd say probably one of the best bands in country music of the talent level of the people up there that are Speaker 1 01:30:39 Playing music. I think like that we kind of fit the mold of the misfit toys kind thing For sure. You really Speaker 2 01:30:44 Do. You really do. And uh, but it's fun and it works, like, you know, and you know, Luke has afforded you guys to all be standouts in your own right. Like, you don't just stand back there all in the same outfit and Yeah. You know, and do your thing. Like, you know, Luke wants you to go out there and, and be part of it. Like, you guys are out there on the thrust as much as he is playing the songs and, and doing a part of it. So it's like, it is, it is the, the circus and, and it, and it's a lot of fun. Speaker 1 01:31:06 It's fun shit. Yeah. No, Speaker 2 01:31:07 It really is. It's, it, it is good. So, well there, are there any other questions that you have for me on the, on the music side? Speaker 1 01:31:12 I, we can sit here all day, but I'm really, it's time to get some grub, I think. Yeah, Speaker 3 01:31:15 Yeah. Um, one thing for me is like, so you just dropped, I mean, this'll come out in Post, but the second night of the stadium show. Yeah. Oh yeah. So we got back to back Nashville Stadium shows. Yeah. Which is amazing. Yeah. We're excited Speaker 2 01:31:28 About it. Speaker 3 01:31:29 Um, like how did you guys like come to be? How did that, like second night come? Yeah, Speaker 2 01:31:34 Luke talked about it on Stormy Warren the other day. You know, he just was like, you know, I'm only playing one show a week now, you know, and it's to a lot of people and it's like, I love playing shows. Like, I just wanna play more. He's like, how about, and we were sitting here in, in the office and it was myself and Aaron, our agent, and, you know, I'm gonna exact tell the story exactly like Luke did. He is like, let's put up a second show. Let's just put it up. And we're like, Hey, that's over a holiday weekend. It's in, in nine days. He's like, yeah, let's just, let's do it. And we're like, well, okay. Like, and we talked about it and it's like, you know, there's risks, of course there's risks, you know, and you know, every show that we've had, you know, has it, you know, it's like we, you, we talk about it. Speaker 2 01:32:12 It's like you, you put a tour up, you sell it out, and you go to the next thing and, and it's like, you know what, it's a challenge. You know? And, and that's what challenges are. So it's like, let's, let's put it out there and let's go do it. And it, it's out there and it's selling and it's, you know, we're excited. We're gonna do two shows now in, in, in a week. And, you know, some people probably think we're crazy and probably some people think that like, you know, oh, that's was too aggressive or that was it, but how do you know, like, how do you know until, you know, like you, you have to do it and you have to take these risks and, and stuff like that. And it's, you know, you just have to, and, and you have to believe like, you know, I think that's the biggest thing is like, you can't work in fear. Speaker 2 01:32:50 Like, you know, we now know like we know what we can do and we can, and, and, and now we'll have a better idea of also the amount of tickets we can sell in a market. Yeah. Like now we're really learning about the total amount of tickets we could sell in a market of this size. And then we're like, well, now that we know that, now we can really understand the size of what we are doing and, and then, you know, and, and have a better, uh, plan of attack moving forward. We're gonna learn from this. This isn't like a, it's not a step back or a step forward, it's just, it's just giving us more information of what we can work with. And you're like, is it scary? Fuck. Yeah, it's scary. I mean, I wake up, I'm looking every hour of how many tickets we've sold and what we're doing, but like, and it's also exhilarating because we're working all together and like I tell, I tell the team all the time, I'm like, look, I don't wanna be in the trenches with anybody, but you guys like, let's go do this. Speaker 2 01:33:35 And like, let's go and win. Like, like that's all we know how to do. So let's go do that. And then, you know, we're gonna see where it ends up. Like, you know, I don't know where it's gonna end up, but you know what? I knew, you know what, you know what's gonna happen though. Luke's gonna stand on that stage of this band that night. Yes. And he's gonna sing his ass off and he's gonna give an amazing show if it's one person or if it's 50,000 people. And, and, and that's the guy he is. And, and, and every artist that we have at Make Wake would do the same fucking thing. And that's why I love what we do here, because they care and they care about that one fan and they care about that 50,000 fans. And that's what's what fucking cool about what we get to do every day. Speaker 1 01:34:10 No doubt. I heard a, a wild statistic, Anne, I don't, you can correct me if I'm wrong. Speaker 2 01:34:14 You know, 99% of all statistics are made up, right? Speaker 1 01:34:16 True. <laugh> uh, someone told me, a little Birdie told me that, um, the show in Dallas, we sold as many tickets as we did in the entirety of Luke's Club tour in one show. Yeah, Speaker 2 01:34:28 We did. So Speaker 1 01:34:30 Crazy. Dude, that's fucked. That's crazy. Yeah. <laugh>. Speaker 2 01:34:33 Yeah. It is crazy. It is crazy. It, it's, it's, it's crazy that, you know, 50, 59,000 in change were there, you know it. That's crazy. And, and, and, and same thing in, in Indie, you know, and same thing will happen here in Nashville. And it's like, um, it's it's, it's crazy and it's crazy to go overseas and see people like we're going to countries we've never been to before, never even heard of these countries and sold out arenas and sold out and like going to cities we've never been to before and, and doing two shows. Like, um, and, and I go, that's the wild side of what we get to do. And, and uh, like you wanna demystify as the music business, dude, there's so many people in other countries who don't believe in what we do, and then we get to go in there and kick that door down and show 'em what we do. That's awesome. Yes. You know, and, and, and that's the cool thing. But you're, again, those people are doubters, but you know, who never doubted once were the fans. The fans that bought the tickets that were there. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, they're like, we're going to Sweden. Speaker 1 01:35:32 <laugh>, Speaker 2 01:35:33 None of us have been to Sweden. <laugh> not a single guy in the band or touring crew or anything. And we sold out a 10,000 cap room in Sweden. We're going to Perth, Australia. People couldn't even pick it out on a map. I bet. Speaker 1 01:35:47 I don't know. Sold Speaker 2 01:35:47 It out. Adelaide sold it out. I mean, uh, Auckland, New Zealand, New Zealand, <laugh>. Yeah. Auckland, New Zealand. Never been there. Sold out Speaker 1 01:35:55 Cobain sold out. Like Speaker 2 01:35:56 It's, it's, yeah, it's crazy. Like yeah, going to like France, Belgium, Switzerland and like taking country music to the world, like 16 countries all sold out. Like it's just, it's nuts. And then stadiums and arenas and I mean, we're playing the gambit and it's just, it's awesome and we're just lucky to be part of a time where we get to do this, you know, and it's just, it's really fun and it's just, I, I think, I think we're seeing the, the beginning of what country music is gonna do. I think it's gonna become a worldwide brand. I really do. Speaker 1 01:36:27 We were just talking about that this morning. Yes, I really do. I wanna play Japan because I really wanna visit there, but I don't wanna pay for the plane tickets, so I want Luke to pay for the plane ticket. Okay, well I mean you didn't have catering. Yeah, Speaker 2 01:36:37 Yeah, exactly. You're gonna eat a lot of rice over there. Edamame. Yeah, A lot edamame. But like, you know, I think we're gonna do that. You know, I think we're gonna be doing a lot of things over the next few years and, and I love being on the forefront of that. I like being on the, they say there's a leading edge and then there's what's called the bleeding edge. I love being on the bleeding edge and what does that mean? That means you get cut and it means that you have to like put a lot more into it. But when you do that, there's also the reward of of being out there. And I guess, you know, the legacy that, you know, if I have to leave any legacy other than taking care of the fans first and giving a fuck is like I wanna be, you know, out there with Luke and all the other artists out there are like, you know, we played this country first or we did this first or we did this first. Speaker 2 01:37:17 Or you know, that's cool. Like, you know, that's what, that's what it's all about. Like the streams and the awards and the accolades and the, and the chart positions and all that are great. But like standing in in a country that you've never been before and the fans are there and they're singing their songs cuz you came to them and you brought your touring circus to them. Nothing is as good as that. There's nothing as good as that. I promise you there isn't. It is a drug and it is the best drug in the world, Speaker 1 01:37:43 <laugh>. Hell yeah. Speaker 2 01:37:44 So thank you guys for dude, Speaker 1 01:37:45 This has been awesome. I'm ready to run through a fucking brick wall right now. Yeah. So I'm putting my application in at Make Way <laugh>. Yeah, Speaker 2 01:37:51 Please don't lead with your hands though cause we need you to play the show. Speaker 1 01:37:53 True <laugh>. So Speaker 2 01:37:54 Lead with your face cuz you don't sing, so it doesn't matter. No doubt. But Nick, thank you Kurt, thank you. You know everybody for Thank You Buddy and what you guys do. It's uh, it's amazing. We, we have a fantastic relationship. You guys are, uh, amazing people. We've done so many fun things together and I hope we get due and for all the support that you give, all the acts and stuff that we do. I really appreciate it. Speaker 1 01:38:11 Yeah. And we, uh, speaking of which, why don't you go ahead and commit to doing another make Wake in Race, rowdy take overnight, Speaker 2 01:38:17 Kirk. I I I will commit to one. Yeah. Speaker 3 01:38:20 <laugh>. Yeah. Speaker 2 01:38:21 I don't know who's gonna play on it cause we have a lot more artists now, but I will commit to another one for you Speaker 3 01:38:24 Guys that makes it easier. Definitely. Speaker 2 01:38:26 Got it. I done committed. We'll do something. Speaker 1 01:38:28 All right buddy. We appreciate you so much man. Thank you Speaker 3 01:38:31 Man. Yes, it's been great getting to hear more of the story cuz you know, we've gotten to meet mostly in meeting settings and stuff, so Yeah, it's been great to get this man, thank you so much for, this Speaker 2 01:38:39 Is a lot of fun. Maybe you'll talk to me again one day. Yes. Speaker 1 01:38:41 Follow, make Wake on Instagram at whatever it is. What Speaker 2 01:38:44 Is at Make Wake Artists. There Speaker 1 01:38:45 You go. There you go. Speaker 3 01:38:46 Well I'm Nicky Speaker 1 01:38:47 T I'm Kurt os on and we'll see, see you on the front row. Speaker 0 01:38:53 It's just, youre like a tattoo.